Author Topic: Swift Tigers  (Read 13719 times)

Offline Dpkempo

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Swift Tigers
« on: October 27, 2004, 07:58:14 AM »
There is a kata called Swift Tigers inthe Shaolin Kempo System.  I have it two different ways.  I was wondering if there is someone that has had for a while that could break it down.  I learned it about 12 years ago and then another way about 5 years ago.
Sifu Dominick :)
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Offline Jon Pack

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2004, 08:52:05 AM »
The only real differences I have seen over the years is some step back on the combination 18 part and some step forward...I have always done it stepping back as I was orginally taught.
If I am not mistaken Cerio's Circle of the Leopard has been linked to the Swift Tigers form and others say it is strickly a Villari form.
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Karazenpo

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2004, 09:33:37 AM »
Hi Jon, if I may respectfully make a correction. There is no connection between Circle of the Leopard and Swift Tigers. Circle of the Leopard was inspired by Karazenpo's #2 Kata. I have heard, though, that Swift Tigers was inspired by Professor Cerio's Circle of the Panther. Respectfully, Professor Joe

Offline Jon Pack

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2004, 07:53:27 PM »
Again you are right on the money.
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Offline Dpkempo

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2004, 10:19:50 PM »
I know that Professor Cerio has a video of circle of the tiger which i have, do you know if he has videos of circle of the panther or leopard.
 :)
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Offline Matt

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2004, 11:59:14 PM »
Hi Jon, if I may respectfully make a correction. There is no connection between Circle of the Leopard and Swift Tigers. Circle of the Leopard was inspired by Karazenpo's #2 Kata. I have heard, though, that Swift Tigers was inspired by Professor Cerio's Circle of the Panther. Respectfully, Professor Joe

I concur with Professor Shuras, and actually, would like some input as to whether anyone familiar with George Pesare's 7 pinan thinks that it is a possible root for the evolving 'circle of the panther' / 'swift tigers' forms. I've only seen his 7 pinan once, but it seemed hauntingly familiar. If anyone is interested, and probably even if nobody is ;D, I'll post my take on why I think swift tigers is related to circle of the panther.

Matt
Matthew Barnes
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Karazenpo

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2004, 09:17:58 AM »
Hi Matt, all I know about #7 pinan was that it was based on a drill Gm. Pesare did in class. For Dpkempo, all these forms are broken down in Nick Cerio's Master's Text. Yeah, Matt, I'd be interested as I'm sure many others with the breakdown of the commonalities of these two forms. It was Shihan Bob Nohelty who initially told me of the connection between the two.

Offline The Kai

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2004, 02:05:30 PM »
I know that Professor Cerio has a video of circle of the tiger which i have, do you know if he has videos of circle of the panther or leopard.
 :)

I have a video of one of his seniors doing the form
Todd
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Offline Dpkempo

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2004, 08:39:47 AM »
Posted by: The Kai
Quote
I have a video of one of his seniors doing the form
Todd

Is it possible to send me a copy or email me this video. I will pay for it if you like.

Thank You
 :D
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Offline The Kai

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2004, 11:03:51 AM »
Hello
You are gone to want to talk to Shihan Burton about his tapes
his e mail is - ShihanMWBurton@aol.com
Let him know what Katas you are looking for.

Hope this helps
Todd
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Offline Matt

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2004, 03:26:52 PM »
Hi Matt, all I know about #7 pinan was that it was based on a drill Gm. Pesare did in class. For Dpkempo, all these forms are broken down in Nick Cerio's Master's Text. Yeah, Matt, I'd be interested as I'm sure many others with the breakdown of the commonalities of these two forms. It was Shihan Bob Nohelty who initially told me of the connection between the two.

That wouldn't surprise me too much. The way I have Swift Tigers is most likely the way Bob Nohelty has it.  ;D

I just did a 'quick & dirty' side by side comparison, using my notes and pages 103-111 of Nick Cerio's The Master's Text, and here's what I found.

1.) The beginning. Knuckle roll, bring hands in front. Swift tigers, open hand; circle of the panther, hoken. Swift tigers(ST), crescent kick and sidekick to 12:00, Circle of the Panther(COP): side kick to 12 o'clock.

2.) Second move - ST: combination 18. COP:Step in with left foot and grab, drag head down, Elbow to spine, circular hammer to head (i.e. the end of combination 18)

3.) Third move. ST - pivot ccw 90 degrees, rising block, thrust punch to body, elbow sandwich to face. COP: - pivot ccw 90 degrees, outward block, hammer fist to body, elbow sandwich to face.

4.) ST - Crane toss takedown, COP - knee, double palm, sweep takedown.

5.) Both - step back to horse, elbow block, backfist with lead hand. Twice in a row.

6.) ST - step back, ridgehand block, knifehand. COP - step back, circular block, palm.

7.) Both - Side kick, pivot on guard.

8. ) here they deviate for a while, I don't feel like typing that much.

9. ) both: Step/slide reverse punch 2x, step and drop to one knee punching down.

10.) then some further similar, but not that similar stuff 'til the end.


Matt
Matthew Barnes
Cape Cod Martial Arts Academy / Kempo Jutsu Kai International
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Karazenpo

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2004, 11:13:29 AM »
Very interesting Matt, someone must know the answer of the connection of these forms. I wonder if Cerio was working on the "Panther" when Villari left him and then Fred just filled in the blanks with his own stufff, therefore the similiarities and the differences and hense: "Swift Tigers'. Interesting...............
« Last Edit: November 15, 2004, 11:14:11 AM by Professor Joe Shuras »

Karazenpo

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2005, 05:05:37 PM »
Hi Matt, yes, I just went over Swift Tigers with a Fred Villari 4th dan, Matt Connors. Matt and I agree that there is no doubt, they are variations of each other, ( Circle of the Panther & Swift Tigers) very similiar and the central theme is right there. Further checking has confirmed that Pinan #7 had to have been the base for both these forms, I knew it right from the start when I saw #18 combination of SK right in the beginning of #7!  "Joe"

Offline Matt

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2005, 08:34:55 PM »
Hi Matt, yes, I just went over Swift Tigers with a Fred Villari 4th dan, Matt Connors. Matt and I agree that there is no doubt, they are variations of each other, ( Circle of the Panther & Swift Tigers) very similiar and the central theme is right there. Further checking has confirmed that Pinan #7 had to have been the base for both these forms, I knew it right from the start when I saw #18 combination of SK right in the beginning of #7!  "Joe"

Thanks for the confirmation. I was pretty sure on that one.  Does anyone have a tape (or is willing to make a tape) of #7 so I can study the similarities and differences?

Thanks,

Matt
Matthew Barnes
Cape Cod Martial Arts Academy / Kempo Jutsu Kai International
"Let them call me rebel, and welcome, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whøre of my soul by swearing allegiance to one..." Thomas Paine, The AMERICAN CRISIS.

Offline Danjo

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Re:Swift Tigers
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2005, 02:47:59 PM »
I learned a form called "12 hands of the tiger". Has anyone heard of this one? Any relation to the others mentioned?
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