Author Topic: All Womens Class  (Read 23154 times)

Offline Serene

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Re:All Womens Class
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2003, 07:54:13 PM »
Hello Mell: :D

Can you please say hello to Sibak Jen & Sifu Ray for me. We met when they were here in Vallejo for the seminar. Sorry you couldn't make it.

Also, hows your women's class coming along? Have they moved to a co-ed class? What happened just curious.  ???

Thank you.

Soifua,
Sifu Serene Terrazas
Head Instructor
Terrazas Kajukenbo
American Canyon, Ca.

Offline Mell

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Re:All Womens Class
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2003, 08:41:54 PM »
Our womens class actually started as part of my student black belt test.  (I had to teach it and Sifu Ray checked up on me periodically) It was started two years ago, with five women, after I had been a brown belt for several years.  I guess that was a good indicator of whether or not I was really grasping the concepts I was being taught.  I thought all five women looked better than I did on my first test.  Though that part of my test is over the class still exists as a Coed beginners class.

I made my original post just to see what other people thought.  

After the class ran for about a year, some of the husbands wanted to start training so we unanimously decided to put them in our class.  Now there are upwards of 20 people in the class.   We have one husband and wife with three teenagers, two mothers with their daughters and one fathers with his sons, as well as a few women training alone, all teenagers to grandparent ages.  (The class is so big now Sifu Ray stays most of the time)

Maybe I can try a Tai Chi class next?  Just need to get Professor Forbach out here for some coaching again.

I will say hi to Sibak Jen and Sifu Ray for you.  Sifu isn't on line and I'm not sure if Jen gets here often. - Mell
« Last Edit: August 29, 2003, 08:44:34 PM by Mell »
Sibak Mellody Porter
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Offline Serene

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Re:All Womens Class
« Reply #47 on: August 31, 2003, 07:07:38 PM »
Hi Mell: ;D

Thank you for the update. I'm glad it all went well.

Thanks for passing the hello on too. :)

Take Care.
Sifu Serene Terrazas
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Terrazas Kajukenbo
American Canyon, Ca.

Offline Brandi Ross

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Re:All Womens Class
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2003, 01:48:10 AM »
 :D  Glad to see that it has done so well.  Good transition into what sounds like a wonderful beginners program.  Keep it up.  I can't wait to hear more and see how it grows.

Aloha,
brandi
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Offline rockatear

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Re: All Womens Class
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2005, 02:55:21 AM »
We started an all womens class, with a female instructor,  last year to accomodate some women who were uncomfortable training with adult men.    Our thought was that we would move them to a regular class later as they settled in.  

Would it be unrealistic/unfair to allow them to stay in an all women's environment?  Some of them do not want to move to another class, most of them are extremely nervous when we have men stay to assist with the class.  Are we doing them a dis-service by having offered the all women's group to begin with?  



Hi All,

I haven't quite figured out how all our threads work (sometimes I just stumble on a subject) so I don't know when this discussion started, but it seems a while back.  Nonetheless, I'd like to add my $.02 to it all.  I do not think it is a dis-service by having offered an all women's group.  A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, but some knowledge is better than no knowledge at all.

Some of you know I train at Hand to Hand Kajukenbo Self-Defense Center, founded by the late Professor Coleen Gragen.  While our school is a women lead school we also have men train with us and men who have received their Black Belts from our school.  (In the beginning it was an all women's kwoon).  Still, the women outnumber the men, not unlike schools where the men outnumber the women.  Even so, there are men who are bigger, wider, heavier and taller than me but I would prefer sparring with them compared to some of the women fighters.  Having said that...let me say this...

As mentioned by Sigung Bishop most crimes of sexual assault, rape, mugging, domestic violence are committed by men against women.  And, going off a bit, we are reinforced by crappy tv shows and movies that women are mostly victims and can never protect themselves and if they do protect themselves they'll only make the attacker (male) madder...and then they'll really get hurt!  Yet, there are women who want to learn how to defend themselves and do want to start training with an all women's group because the idea for some, based on their personal experiences, is too threatening to start training with men.  There are also women who just want to train with women simply because that is their choice. ;)

So this part is directed towards the women that want to train only with women because they are afraid to train with men.  I agree with those who suggested that the women have the man/men train only as an uke.  In fact, when I make group presentations that are work-related not only do I suggest they take self-defense classes or enroll in a martial arts class, I strongly suggest that those who have been raped, battered and or assaulted to take a full force impact self-defense class and that also goes for children.  The self-defense classes are limited, most have some kind of payment plan or scholarship and one organization, Kidpower, never denies training to anyone who applies.  If you want more information you can go to www.bamm.org to get an idea of the full force impact self-defense training for adults.  They also have classes for men as well.  The great thing about the uke is that they are so padded and trained that you can use all of your might, eye pokes, groin kicks, axe kicks, etc. since the adult training is to teach the student to knockout an opponent.  For women who need support as these classes often evoke emotions there are assistants to help them should the need arise.  Additionally, part of these programs for both children and adults is for the person to pick a scenario where they are most afraid and/or challenged so they can face and conquer their fear.  Not a few students go on to join regular martial arts classes.

So my final thought on this...for now...is if your school is offering that which you wish to teach then perhaps that is what it is supposed to be doing. 8)

cyas,
Shirley Phelps, blue blelt, Hand to Hand Kajukenbo Self-Defense Center, Oakland, CA, www.handtohandkajukenbo.com, Gaylord Method, Chief Head Instructors:  Sifus Jen Resnick and Sonya Richardson

Offline kempomama

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Re: All Womens Class
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2005, 03:00:05 PM »
Hello All
Interesting how the thoughts of a thread get started and still keep on going. I agree that women should work with men as well, and as a former domestic violence victim (way back in '86) I competely understand how women think and feel when they are in some serious trouble at home.  However, I have learned from some of those same victims that it takes a awhile not only to get over their fear of men but of violence as well.  I had a student who just wasn't ready to handle the defensive portion of the class, it was just too real for her, it was impossible for her to work with the guys in the class. So that is where I began to think about the needs of the few, those few women out there need to be exposed to a different way of regaining their inner strenght, one small class at a time.
I also agree with the former posts concerning fear.  But, I have found that whether in the coed classes or all same sex classes the same thing always happens, everyone is always friendly. Which I know from my previously mentioned experience,  attackers use fear to get their victims defenses down.  So when I teach I  remind  our students that when they are acting the attacker, they act like a scary attacker. On that same note, I like to discuss the subject of fear with our students.
What do the folks on the cafe have to say about fear?
Thanks
Sheryl Baber Evans
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Hokkien Martial Arts, Topeka, Kansas

Offline rockatear

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Re: All Womens Class
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2005, 02:57:29 AM »
.....So when I teach I  remind  our students that when they are acting the attacker, they act like a scary attacker. On that same note, I like to discuss the subject of fear with our students.
What do the folks on the cafe have to say about fear?
Thanks
Sheryl Baber Evans


Kempomama,

Pyschology says fear's good for the choice mode of "fight" or "flight".  Me, I'm not too proud to run when the running looks good and catch me if you can  ::).  OTOH, I do not back down from a fight...ah, the paradoxes of life.  Fear's good.  It keeps me balanced.  Keeps me alert and less arrogant.  When training, I try to keep in mind to never underestimate my opponent, especially if her rank is lower than mine.  If their rank is higher and I know they know my strengths and weaknesses fear acts as a catalyst to try something different.

I think many of us have heard the saying, "be careful of what you wish for".  I onced wished to walk in this world without fear.  I'm not too far from my goal, but if I could've seen the road leading to my goal I might have qualified the wish  :-\.  I guess, all in all, fear is a great tool-- not so much to instill it in others, but rather to learn about myself, take my hits and get up and keep on moving.  The best thing in truly knowing fear is learning how to make it work on my terms.  Course, when all else fails, "run chile run" ;) .  See, I'm not even afraid to say I'll run if I think that's what I should do 8).

Much respect,
Shirley Phelps, blue blelt, Hand to Hand Kajukenbo Self-Defense Center, Oakland, CA, www.handtohandkajukenbo.com, Gaylord Method, Chief Head Instructors:  Sifus Jen Resnick and Sonya Richardson

Offline Wado

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Re: All Womens Class
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2005, 04:49:42 PM »
...I also agree with the former posts concerning fear.  But, I have found that whether in the coed classes or all same sex classes the same thing always happens, everyone is always friendly. Which I know from my previously mentioned experience,  attackers use fear to get their victims defenses down.  So when I teach I  remind  our students that when they are acting the attacker, they act like a scary attacker. On that same note, I like to discuss the subject of fear with our students.
What do the folks on the cafe have to say about fear?
Thanks
Sheryl Baber Evans

Fear can come in many different forms and ways. You can learn to cope with the symptoms of fear and adrenaline dumping through experience, awareness, and mental state, but you can never realistically remove the causes of fear.

In combat, probably the flinching or fear that causes you to freeze up and not function is the greatest immediate danger to someone's well being. On the other hand, lingering fear that never seems to totally go away can weigh heavy on someone, the weight of which can become unbearable, each and every time the anticipation hits just as hard and just as badly until all the strength goes away, sickness comes, and getting out of bed each morning is a difficult task in itself.

Dealing with fear, especially if training triggers episodes of previous trauma and fear, is probably something many have written whole thesis on. All I can say at this time is that one has to be able to put down the fear and rest for a while before taking it up again. Everyone gets afraid at times, but you got to be able to let it go afterwards and learn from it and rest -- recharge the batteries.

That being said, IMHO, surprise is a major simulator to learning to deal with fear in a constructive manner to turn fear into a tool to help rather than hurt. When someone is surprised they instantantly feel the fear of the unknown and afterwards they have to deal with the fact that they aren't all knowing, that they can be caught unaware, and just accept that we are mortal and do the best we can.

Try to train controlled drills where one punches the other, then at times without letting them know, instead of punching, attack with a training knife. Cut them up a bit. This is dealing with the unknown as the defender will not know what to expect, just like real life. They will have to deal with not over thinking the situation and deal with initial surprise and recover as quickly as possible, using that initial fear as a trigger to tell them it is time to fight or flee.

Just some thoughts.

W. Yamauchi
Mateo Kajukenbo
Seattle, Washington

Offline kadena

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Re: All Womens Class
« Reply #53 on: August 03, 2005, 03:12:40 PM »
I train in an all-women's school. In my opinion it's rare that attackers below green belt give anything resembling a realistic attack when working on grab arts or self defense grabs. Some of the women have difficulty working themselves up to be "scary" attackers like what Kempomama posted previously. Do any of you know of excercises or have any advice on how to get these women to be able to increase their "scary" factor?   
« Last Edit: August 03, 2005, 03:14:38 PM by kadena »
Janette, green belt, Gaylord Method, Seven Star Women's Kung Fu

Offline Wado

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Re: All Womens Class
« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2005, 06:48:30 PM »
I was explained the "fight or flight"in DOC training.  The way it was explained to me is everyone has one or the other.  In corrections we have no choice but to fight.  On the job the "flight" has ended a person's employment...either on their own or peer pressure.  My question is can a persons "flight" issue be changed into a "fight" and are their any recommended drills to help this?

A lot of this probably has to do with what is inside the person. I've had it described to me as the "killer instinct" or the will to never give up, no matter what. I've also had it described as stupidity as afterwards, people realize that they came close to death and serious injury.

You basically have to believe in what you are doing is the right thing to do. Basically before a drill, the mental state of everyone can be evaluated. For a fight, you need the intentions of a fight. One method that works sometimes is to find someone that the person really loves and have the student visualize that person is in danger.

It goes something like this... You walk out into a parking lot and six shady looking thugs are hanging out by your car... what do you do? Then the same situation but now, you walk out into the parking lot and six shady looking thugs are by your car and harrassing your daughter... now what do you do? How do you feel? The answers to the latter are usually along the lines that you feel you have to do something, even if it puts you in harms way, and the feeling is often anger or rage.

Everyone has something inside of them that can bring this out. It doesn't mean you won't get your butt kicked or won't be afraid, and it doesn't mean you will be a good fighter, but it does mean you will take action because you believe you must do something.

Some people are just totally bad asses and they can turn this on and off at will when needed. Others, need a bit of a reason to do so and sometimes they can't bring it out when needed.

I train in an all-women's school. In my opinion it's rare that attackers below green belt give anything resembling a realistic attack when working on grab arts or self defense grabs. Some of the women have difficulty working themselves up to be "scary" attackers like what Kempomama posted previously. Do any of you know of excercises or have any advice on how to get these women to be able to increase their "scary" factor?   


I suggest pairing up lower ranks with higher ranks. Learn through experience. It really depends on the exercise and the people involved. For one thing, if the student is learning something new, they will often need things to be slowed down and the resistance to be less so they can learn it better. However, if you want to have realism in training, you have to know what it is like... hopefully the higher ranking belts will know from experience what a realistic attack and realistic resistance is and how much of it is appropriate to give and still learn.

Like it is said, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. People have to discover why they should give realistic attacks in training so it feels right to them. This can take time and putting too much pressure on someone to perform in such a manner can scare them away rather than give them inspiration to train harder.
W. Yamauchi
Mateo Kajukenbo
Seattle, Washington

Offline Serene

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Re: All Womens Class
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2005, 05:23:01 PM »
Everyone has fears it is how we handle them that separate us.

On a few occastions we have assisted some in overcoming those fears that were caused by a bad incident. I believe with the right instructor trainining in Kajukenbo is a great way to address some of those fears.

Im my experience you can tell before the technique is excuted if someone is fearful whether they be the uke or defender. It is best to explain each application of the technique. Communication is a key here not performance.

When assisting those students think outside of the box and be creative in your teaching.  Communication is a key to the student bringing those walls of fear down. Sometimes fear is due to the lack of confidence and self esteem.

For us the best drills for these cases is to communicate and be patient due to the obvious internal issues. Teach from inside out and remember we can teach anyone to kick and punch but a good teacher will help you believe it. For these special cases focus on their mind not their muscles.

Soifua,   


Be patient

Sifu Serene Terrazas
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Terrazas Kajukenbo
American Canyon, Ca.

Offline John Bishop

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Re: All Womens Class
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2005, 05:58:02 PM »
I train in an all-women's school. In my opinion it's rare that attackers below green belt give anything resembling a realistic attack when working on grab arts or self defense grabs. Some of the women have difficulty working themselves up to be "scary" attackers like what Kempomama posted previously. Do any of you know of excercises or have any advice on how to get these women to be able to increase their "scary" factor?   

See if your instructor is open to once in a while having some men visit from a neighboring school.  You have to work up to it, but somewhere along the line, you'll have to do techniques against 200# men.  A 140# woman with her best mean face is just not going to be the same. 
My female students train in mixed classes, with mixed partners. 
But on top of that, often times we separate the ladies out with the biggest strongests guys in the class.  We do grab arts, and the women/teen girls are told to do whatever it takes to make the grab art work.  There's a little screaming at first, but then there's some shouts of joy and enthusiam after the initial shock wears off.  I've never had a lady say that it wasn't a great learning experience.     
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Offline rockatear

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Re: All Womens Class
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2005, 09:58:21 AM »
Sibak Mell,

I had that happen to me in my last test.  We were demonstrating a self-defense breaking grab and my uke was an advanced female student and about my same size.  At one point in this particular test, Sifu stopped the exercise and had one of the advanced men come up and be my uke for the same grab.  Didn't ponder it too much until you wrote this stuff...ah, who knows the thinking of our Sifus until some way down the road 8)

with respect,
Shirley Phelps, blue blelt, Hand to Hand Kajukenbo Self-Defense Center, Oakland, CA, www.handtohandkajukenbo.com, Gaylord Method, Chief Head Instructors:  Sifus Jen Resnick and Sonya Richardson

Offline kadena

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Re: All Womens Class
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2005, 02:08:35 AM »
Rockatear - Sigung Bones recently sat on the board of one of our black belt candidates. The same thing that happened to you happened to the candidate during self-defense grabs. The ukes in grab arts were also found to be lacking in realistic attacks by Sigung Bones. I'm happy to say that the candidate received her black belt and that subsequent classes after the test featured more realistic attacks by ukes. Will you be coming to Sigung's September seminar in Seattle with your classmates?

Kempomama - I think that anything, including cell phones, bad moods, whatever, that distracts you from your surroundings has the potential to get you in trouble.   

While we're on the subject of fear I've another slightly different question for everyone. How do you deal with being scared/intimidated by a drill that you're doing with your partner, i.e., sparring, two-on-one sparring, etc? If you're a teacher how do you tell your students to deal with it or do you even address it?

Is it solely your responsibility to deal with your emotions since no one can "make" you feel anything unless you allow it? Is it uke's responsibility since she should notice your fear reaction no matter how minimal it is (flat affect or not, widen pupils or not, etc) amongst all the punches and kicks flying her way? What if uke's never been taught to look for subtle signs of fear in her partner? Is it your responsibility to ask for a slower speed and lower intensity until you're comfortable with the drill? What do you think?

Janette
Janette, green belt, Gaylord Method, Seven Star Women's Kung Fu

Offline rockatear

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Re: All Womens Class
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2005, 04:06:19 AM »
Hi Kadena,
I don't think I'm coming to the September seminar.  I've got a conference for a couple of days in San Diego starting on the 18th and my youngest son is leaving for his first year at U of Oregon on the 17th (I think).  An additional trip would probably stretch my funds.  But, I never rule out anything these days.  BTW, isn't Sigung Bones simply awesome?

On the matter of fear with sparring and drills--  In our school it is our responsibility to convey to our partners/ukes if we have a problem with our interactions.  I.e, if I want the level intensified it's up to me to say so; in the same manner if we're doing say a stomach punching drill, it's up to me to let my partner know her punches are too hard or too soft and, too, to let them know if I have an injury that might intefere with our drill.  Given that we're taught this as standard operating procedure, it shouldn't take a lot of discussion or time.  Simply patting my arm and saying, "injury" conveys that my partner automatically takes that into consideration as we do the exercise.  Also, it's about owning my needs as in "Could you bring the level of force down slightly?" as opposed to "You're hitting me harder than you should."  If conflict should arise and my partner doesn't respect my requests, then it could be a personal issue and I would be expected to take the issue to my Sifu if we couldn't resolve it and I perceive it to be interferring with my training.

Our Sifus are pretty good about teaching and assessing our skills.  Also, they're very open about discussing situations and personal progress.  In all my five years at Hand to Hand, I've not witnessed any student being disrepected by a teacher or a teacher being dismissive of a student in any of my classes.  Even in matters of correcting us the thread of respect is very dynamic throughout the school.  I've witnessed students disrespect others or even teachers but the problems are handled quite well by the teachers.

Too, other than the injury, one expects that at certain belt levels one should be able to learn or accept the pain that goes along with the training.

If I don't see you in Seattle, I'm sure our paths will cross over the years.  Uhm, with Sigung Bones seminar it's probably a good idea to practice breathing when receiving punches ;D.  And if you're not "getting" the exercise, ask her and in one look she'll assess what you need to adjust, explain what you're doing and what to do to correct it.

Take care and have fun,

Shirley Phelps, blue blelt, Hand to Hand Kajukenbo Self-Defense Center, Oakland, CA, www.handtohandkajukenbo.com, Gaylord Method, Chief Head Instructors:  Sifus Jen Resnick and Sonya Richardson