Author Topic: To the FEMALES in the house  (Read 16497 times)

Offline KajuJKDFighter

  • Senior Moderator
  • Black Belt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3442
  • "Accept the things to which fate binds you"
    • Bono's Jeet Kune Do and Kajukenbo
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2005, 08:11:07 PM »
Jackie, Killer Instinct is the ability to sense injury or weakness and go in for the finish.  This is Very hard to learn, though some/few have it naturally...
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline dastars

  • Blue Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
  • Captain Law School
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2005, 11:29:01 PM »
Quote
... some/few have it naturally

Is that why it is an "instinct"? ;)
Geoff Hurd - Student of Professor Walt Andrae (SGM Halbuna) - Augusta, GA

University of Pittsburgh Kajukenbo

Offline Gints Klimanis

  • Moderators
  • Black Belt
  • ****
  • Posts: 1159
    • Gentlemen's Fighting Club
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2005, 04:02:00 AM »
>I tend to agree with this from what I've seen at my own school. For lack of better term, I call it "the >killer instinct," some have it, some don't, and some learn it over time. Agree that for many women, >including me, this takes lots of time to develop. Although I've always done sports and been >aggressive in terms of competition, it was hard for me to learn to "hurt" others,

Technically, an instinct is innate (genetically-programmed) and is not a learned response.  If you have it but didn't learn it, it's "killer" instinct.  If you didn't have it and learned it, it's killer intuition.   
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline KajuJKDFighter

  • Senior Moderator
  • Black Belt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3442
  • "Accept the things to which fate binds you"
    • Bono's Jeet Kune Do and Kajukenbo
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2005, 11:00:37 AM »
Funny, but true Geoff.  I think in animals it's a true instinct, predators that is.  In human's I think it's very rare, there are drills to train it, but from what I've seen in all the years I've been teaching is it's had to teach someone finish well.  (in a fight of course)  It's just a term that probably should have a different name, but wouldn't sound as cool.....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline Wado

  • BlackBelt
  • Brown Belt
  • ****
  • Posts: 529
  • llama llama
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2005, 12:35:10 PM »

Well "killer instinct", IMHO, is something both inside and trained. Even predators like cats need to be taught the killing blow by their mother. It is a technique that does not come naturally, but is instead taught. Once the predator tastes the blood of a kill, they remember.

On the other hand, almost any animal, predator or not, will fight for survival if cornered. Mothers will fight to protect their children often with more ferocity than anyone could have thought possible. This does not have to be taught. This is a sort of state of mind and adrenaline altered conscious that will not give up and will do what it takes. A.K.A. that "reptile brain" talked about in RBSD.

It is quite possible that we train the "killer instinct" out of ourselves with martial arts. It is more than just a theory that untrained people often will hit harder in a fight than trained fighters. The trained fighter can hit just as hard or harder, but through training has learned to hold back some for safety and defense. Also they depend more on technique than aggression to defeat an opponent.

Training also lowers our perceptions of what is a threat. We don't get all stressed out about a fight like maybe we should if it was the real thing. At the same time, not getting all stressed out allows for more relaxed flow and technique.

So I believe that "killer instinct" does include the survival instinct, the never give up will power, and definitely the ability to follow through, but I also speculate that "killer instinct" is also, just as importantly if not perhaps more importantly, the ability to follow through while in a relaxed yet combat state. The ability to use full power strikes and follow through on technique while not fearing for your life.

Of course, I am not advocating using inappropriate force. I am just speculating what is "killer instinct" so that I and others can consider these things when training and teaching.



W. Yamauchi
Mateo Kajukenbo
Seattle, Washington

Offline KajuJKDFighter

  • Senior Moderator
  • Black Belt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3442
  • "Accept the things to which fate binds you"
    • Bono's Jeet Kune Do and Kajukenbo
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2005, 03:31:02 PM »
Some cats will attack right away some don't ever, same with people.  I've seen alot of fights, and it's a rare case someone has the finish skill....watch MMA, or boxing, I don't think you can train it out if your born with it, at least not from what I have seen. 
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline Serene

  • BlackBelt
  • Brown Belt
  • ****
  • Posts: 730
  • It Is What It Is
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2005, 06:29:44 PM »
Interesting comments.

I'll post after class.

Soifua,
Sifu Serene Terrazas
Head Instructor
Terrazas Kajukenbo
American Canyon, Ca.

Offline rockatear

  • Blue Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 320
  • "Study your teacher carefully", Professor Bones
    • JustThink.Us
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2005, 11:54:18 PM »
Hi Folks,
I love watching Animal Planet, especially when it comes to the big cats, and even more watching the lions.  In watching a lion or a bunch of lions working together to take down its prey, they assess, lower down and sneak up on their prey -- prey that is alert there is a strike coming; and they wait until just the right moment and spring into action.  Most times they take their prey down.

When I sparr I sometimes feel like that...circling (of which I could do more)...laying low...(that could mean taking a few hits to lull my opponent into thinking it's a weakness)...and that final setup...waiting for the right moment and them "Baaaammmm!".  The "Baaaammmm!" is always the last instinctive or intuitive strike...knowing that an opening will present itself in seconds and then sensing that opening for me to finally land the blow I'm looking to land.

I'm not sure that "we train the 'killer instinct' out of ourselves with martial arts", as much as we learn to control our aggression.  Even though untrained people may often hit harder in a fight than trained fighters, I would bet in the end the trained fighters win (if they are skilled).  Untrained people hit harder, I think, because their fear level is higher and at the same time their thinking processes are slowed down.  They are dangerous.  But I think there is an energy level put out by folks who are trained and confident in their training and overall in themselves that emanates quite strongly and on an energetic level others pick that up.  If one can stay out of the way in the beginning by an untrained, dangerous fighter, the trained fighters presence and skill take over.  At least, that's what I think. ;)

with respect,
Shirley Phelps, blue blelt, Hand to Hand Kajukenbo Self-Defense Center, Oakland, CA, www.handtohandkajukenbo.com, Gaylord Method, Chief Head Instructors:  Sifus Jen Resnick and Sonya Richardson

Offline KajuJKDFighter

  • Senior Moderator
  • Black Belt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3442
  • "Accept the things to which fate binds you"
    • Bono's Jeet Kune Do and Kajukenbo
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2005, 12:53:19 AM »
Stated very well Shirley
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

juribe

  • Guest
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2005, 02:22:14 AM »
If you didn't have it and learned it, it's killer intuition.   


I like this, "killer intuition"--it has dual meanings and meshes well with my strong belief that a person never ignore their "intuition" or "gut feelings." Every time I've chosen to ignore what I feel in my gut, I regret it.

Interesting to read an intelligent, lively discussion come out of my loose use of a term. But Sigung Bono's right, "killer instinct" just sounds cool  ;)

Offline Wado

  • BlackBelt
  • Brown Belt
  • ****
  • Posts: 529
  • llama llama
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2005, 02:42:46 AM »
Nice posts. When I theorize that we can train the killer instinct out of ourselves with martial arts, I do see that part of that is learning to control ourselves and our aggressions better, I also see that it isn't going to take away instincts, some got it, some don't as Sigung Bono was saying.

Sure some cats are fighters and others aren't, but the actual killing blow technique is taught, not instinctive. A cat can be quite a brawler, but the quick kill bite to the throat and break the neck is necessary to hunt down food otherwise the cat mostly plays with its food.

An animal, once taught the killing blow with the taste of blood, is changed and will be able to repeat that kill move when necessary. Humans, however, can be taught, but may not be able to follow through with it. It is not unlike a switch that turns it on or off when needed and controlling that switch is not "natural" to most humans. At least not natural without the right reasons.

It is these reasons that interest me the most at times. I don't think about it often, but at some point the reasons we do what we do can be as important as what we do.

I feel that if there is a question between if women and men are treated differently in training, or if anyone is treated differently, it comes down to reasons why. It isn't enough to follow-through, humans have to question why they do or why they don't. Don't get me wrong, it is no big deal, one way of another if you learn and enjoy training in martial arts -- but for real situations, it can put things into perspective.

Ask yourself if you put yourself in a situation without thinking much about it so that others don't have to. What I mean is that it is better you than someone else. For instance, it is better that someone pull a knife on you because you handle it better than some poor innocent person. Or a less lethal but still potentially dangerous situation, do you volunteer to uke for Sifu/Sigung so that you can take the pain and  hits rather than some less experienced class member?

Is it the "intuition" to be the one so that others don't have to be that we are really looking for in martial arts?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 02:48:32 AM by Wado »
W. Yamauchi
Mateo Kajukenbo
Seattle, Washington

Offline KajuJKDFighter

  • Senior Moderator
  • Black Belt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3442
  • "Accept the things to which fate binds you"
    • Bono's Jeet Kune Do and Kajukenbo
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2005, 10:48:26 AM »
That very well could be true.....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline Serene

  • BlackBelt
  • Brown Belt
  • ****
  • Posts: 730
  • It Is What It Is
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2005, 12:49:35 PM »
Intensity is not "killer instinct". Intensity is taking your training seriously.  Focus and doing your best efforts in class and outside training. Intense training is taking the extra time to poistion your stance profect your punches and kicks and listening to your teacher.

Taking the extra effort to focus and strive for accuracy. Ask questions to our teachers of how we can be better at our training. Learning to humble ourselves and say wow - I suck I need help. Keeping our cup half full. Do not compare ourselves to other students and give our best efforts.

Drills help you better your skills not develop a mind set.  "Killer instinct" is a mind set.

Years ago, my dad a former boxer told me that my brothers who were boxers would never go far because they did not have the "killer instinct". He said, killer instinct is a taste in your mouth and in the air you smell. Like when sharks smell blood in the ocean and something comes over them.  It's not a bad thing but you willl know it if you have it and most important your opponent and future opponents will see and feel it. He said no one can teach this to you, if it exist its in your heart. It's what you believe to be true and no one can tell you otherwise. For some he said its about honor others maybe a culture thing.

He told me Serene I knock em' out because if I don't than your grandpa would have knocked me out when I got home. :D So, I scare to get knock out by your grandpa so I had to knock em' out - no choice. ;) He said, he was the match that everyone loved to watch but were scared as heck by the outcome. 

My brothers had won many tournaments near and far. They trained hard every day, ran and drill after drill. They ate right and listened to their trainer. There skills where tight, timing was on the button and everyone said they were the next up an coming champs. My brothers were great fighters and the fact that they didn't have the killer instinct was okay too. My family and I speak often on the good ol' fighting days

In my mind it comes down to an honor and culture thing. I believe that when I am fighting I am defending not just who I am but where I come from. Its that finishing blow to your opponent/attacker - the refusal to go out any other way but to survive.  Now, for myself in tournaments I have no problem loosing by points- but I can't get my butt kicked my dad would kill me. ;)





 

« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 12:51:13 PM by Kajushodan »
Sifu Serene Terrazas
Head Instructor
Terrazas Kajukenbo
American Canyon, Ca.

Offline rockatear

  • Blue Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 320
  • "Study your teacher carefully", Professor Bones
    • JustThink.Us
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2005, 12:47:05 AM »
Stated very well Shirley

Thanks Sigung :)


Our children are watching us...
Shirley Phelps, blue blelt, Hand to Hand Kajukenbo Self-Defense Center, Oakland, CA, www.handtohandkajukenbo.com, Gaylord Method, Chief Head Instructors:  Sifus Jen Resnick and Sonya Richardson

Offline KajuJKDFighter

  • Senior Moderator
  • Black Belt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3442
  • "Accept the things to which fate binds you"
    • Bono's Jeet Kune Do and Kajukenbo
Re: To the FEMALES in the house
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2005, 01:33:45 AM »
I liked your story Serene....my boxing coach would bop me off the head with a water bottle, and I would know I did something wrong.  i had a fat lip so much I missed it when it was gone....well and it helped with those Mick Jagger impressions ....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision