Author Topic: New Cousins?  (Read 9812 times)

Offline East Coast Kempo

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New Cousins?
« on: November 23, 2005, 02:20:19 PM »
I was under the impression that Sijo was the only one of the founders that trained other martial artists after the Black Belt Society disbanded. I stumbled upon this yesterday in another forum http://www.kenpothoughts.com/GL_Display.asp?SEC=3&EntryID=138. It says that Clarence Chang [Siu Lum influence] started his own martial arts style. If we indeed do have these "cousins", I haven't heard of them yet. I hope I just didn't step over the line into Taboo but i was just wondering. If anyone knows anything about them at all, particularly their style in comparison to our Kajukenbo, I'd be interested.
Matt Cordella, Probationary Shodan
Under the instruction of Sensei Mike Savino
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"No matter what anyone tells you, eating pretzels before your black belt test WILL NOT HELP YOU!"- Life lesson learned the hard way  :-P

Offline John Bishop

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2005, 03:34:28 PM »
I guess anythings possible, but it was my understanding that George "Clarence" Chang was not involved in the martial arts after he went to the Korean war.  In fact for close to 40 years many people thought that he had been killed in the war.  Many people were surprised when he showed up at Peter Choo's funeral in 1997.  This Chang lineage is something that needs to be looked at closely.  Easy to make claims that go back to someone who is no longer living, and was not well known.
As to the other founders, Joe Holck had a very long teaching career in both judo and jujitsu.  He acheived the rank of 10th degree and retired from teaching a few years ago. 
Frank Ordanaz also taught with Sijo after the Korean war.  Peter Choo continued his training in various places he travelled to while in the military.   

Perhaps some of our Hawaiian brothers can comment more on Prof. Chang's activities in Hawaii. 
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
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"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline John Bishop

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2005, 04:06:05 PM »
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline East Coast Kempo

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2005, 01:30:36 PM »
Thanks for the info, Professor. I wonder if any of the founders are still in the position to teach. It would be something if we could get a seminar from one of the founders, perhaps on their favorite art. That would probably give alot of insight into the original components of Kajukenbo.
Matt Cordella, Probationary Shodan
Under the instruction of Sensei Mike Savino
White Tiger Kempo

Always learning...
"No matter what anyone tells you, eating pretzels before your black belt test WILL NOT HELP YOU!"- Life lesson learned the hard way  :-P

Offline John Bishop

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2005, 03:44:24 AM »
Well according to one of our Professors in Hawaii who knew George Chang personally, these people are not credible. 
And the more I look at their website the more suspicious I get.  The biography they have for Clarence Chang is word for word the same biography I wrote and posted here in the Who's Who section. 
The picture is also one that I posted here on the Cafe.  You'd figure the'd have some original material since their Grandmaster claims to have been a direct student of Chang's.  Plus they don't mention that Chang's true name was  "George Chuen Yoke Chang". 
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline Dean Goldade

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2005, 07:54:13 AM »
Here's another link:

http://www.roundrockkenpo.com/lineage.php

Professor Bishop,
I can check this out, I live in Round Rock... This is the first I have heard of this school, but I will stop by and say Hi.

I will let you know what I find out.

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving

Dean.
Student of the arts
www.austinkaju.com

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2005, 08:50:25 AM »
It is funny how, after so many people have spent so long looking at all the historical apspects of our art, that nobody has heard anything about this group, ever, before. That they appeared only after his passing is also incredibly co-incidental. George Chang, supposedly backed away from the arts before /after / during the Korean War. His friend Frank Ordonez (Kajukenbo co-founder) knew him and indicated to me that he had no real martial contacts for the rest of his life. A confirmation with GM Ordonez would be in order to confirm this.

Sorry mess.

There is a quote from Gypsy Rose Lee about an "uppety" chorus girl. "She is descended from a long line that her mother listened to"

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2005, 10:06:37 AM »
Deano say 'Hi" for me the old school Kaju way...I'm sure you remember....."Goodtimes"
« Last Edit: November 25, 2005, 10:09:05 AM by KajuJKDFighter »
GM John E Bono DC
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Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline East Coast Kempo

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2005, 11:01:38 AM »
Prof. Bishop, or anyone else who knows, do the students trained by the other founders who continued teaching [ex. Joe Holck & Frank Ordanaz] bear any affiliation to Kajukenbo? Are they're techniques anything like ours? I wonder...
Matt Cordella, Probationary Shodan
Under the instruction of Sensei Mike Savino
White Tiger Kempo

Always learning...
"No matter what anyone tells you, eating pretzels before your black belt test WILL NOT HELP YOU!"- Life lesson learned the hard way  :-P

Offline Dean Goldade

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2005, 12:49:01 PM »
Deano say 'Hi" for me the old school Kaju way...I'm sure you remember....."Goodtimes"

You know I will bro... Hey Dennis your "baby godzilla" stopped in and trained with us last week.. I think we did you proud. He wants to join up. 45 minutes of circuits on ground and pound, thai bag, speed bag, shadowboxing, heavy bags, then about 10 rounds of banging, boxing and stick fighting... He did pretty good though... I needed a step ladder to get to his face, but I got there... He seems like he is there for the right reasons and should be a keeper.. We will keep him living up to the "Bonedaddy" tradition... LOL..

I will let you know how the visit goes bro..

Keep up the hard training.

Dean.
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Offline John Bishop

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2005, 01:31:59 PM »
Prof. Bishop, or anyone else who knows, do the students trained by the other founders who continued teaching [ex. Joe Holck & Frank Ordanaz] bear any affiliation to Kajukenbo? Are they're techniques anything like ours? I wonder...

Prof. Holck primarily taught judo and jujitsu.  He and his son Vinson do have their own method of Kajukenbo.  Here's a short description from Vinson Holck's biography:

Prof. Vincent Holck is the son of Joseph Holck and nephew of Peter YY Choo, co founders of Hawaii's Kajukenbo.  Prof. Holck professes his teachings of Kajukenbo under two systems.

The first system of Kajukenbo is the Matsuno Ryu Goshinjitsu.  This system dedicates the introduction of Danzan Ryu Jujitsu, by his father, into the Kajukenbo system.

The second system of Kajukenbo is the Matsuno Kajukenbo Kai which dedicates the introduction of kickboxing into the Kajukenbo system by his Uncle, Prof. Peter Choo.

Shihan Holck was recently promoted by Prof. Adriano Emperado to 9th Degree Black Belt in Kajukenbo.  He is also 7th Dan in Danzan Ryu Jujitsu, and 4th Dan in Nihon Jujitsu.


Prof. Ordonez taught at Palama Settlement with Sijo after the Korean war, so I have to assume that he taught the Original Methed".
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2005, 02:16:25 PM »
Thanks Deano, he needs motivation to train, slacks and hates any kind of cardio......by the way the liver shot will drop him, watch his leg kick though....he's a crack shot with a pistol and shotgun though.......Peace
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline Dean Goldade

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2005, 03:07:25 PM »
Thanks Deano, he needs motivation to train, slacks and hates any kind of cardio......by the way the liver shot will drop him, watch his leg kick though....he's a crack shot with a pistol and shotgun though.......Peace

Yea, body shots seemed to slow him down quite a bit. Made him do 2 minute rounds with the medicine ball so that should bring him around.. Glad he is a good shot.. I have added handgun, shotgun & rifle to my requirements for ranking.. I want my Black belts to be effective from a minimum of 100 yards and closer...

Miss ya brother.

Dean.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2005, 03:09:21 PM by Dean Goldade »
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2005, 06:25:32 PM »
He's a member of Front Sight, we went there and trained in combat handgun....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline Dean Goldade

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Re: New Cousins?
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2005, 03:06:14 PM »
He's a member of Front Sight, we went there and trained in combat handgun....

Cool.. He will fit right in.. We need to take a trip to Vegas. A little shootin, and .........

Be good brother.

Dean
Student of the arts
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