Author Topic: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!  (Read 16037 times)

Offline John Bishop

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2006, 05:23:38 PM »
Well, if the instructor has a black belt in Kajukenbo he would be pretty easy to look up on the family tree.  It's one thing to add new material that is useful, but to change or subtract from what you were taught is not good for the future of Kajukenbo.
Now if someone was professing to teach Kajukenbo, and were not actually a Kajukenbo practitioner, then I think all of us would have problems with that.  If the person couldn't be "talked" into giving up the lie, then there are plenty of ways to make it known publically that he/she is not qualified/authorized to teach kajukenbo. In the old days it would have been handled physically ;)
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
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K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Palma

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2006, 06:02:26 PM »
I have the website to the school in question, they also have videos of the students performing some of the kajukenbo/ Kenpo techniques. For those familiar with Krav Maga the simlarties are as clear as day. Send me an email and I will send you the link. I do not want to embarras the school / instrcutor in question publicly.

Offline John Bishop

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2006, 07:01:22 PM »
I have the website to the school in question, they also have videos of the students performing some of the kajukenbo/ Kenpo techniques. For those familiar with Krav Maga the simlarties are as clear as day. Send me an email and I will send you the link. I do not want to embarras the school / instrcutor in question publicly.

If he's got a website, then he obviously wants people to look at it.  So feel free to post a link, and we'll let everyone form their own opinions.
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline hunter

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2006, 07:49:29 PM »
Verrrry interrrrresting!  :-]
Boston
(where kajukenbo is rare)

Palma

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2006, 08:38:21 PM »
http://www.brandxmartialarts.com/multimedia/kenpo_videos.htm

In their website it doesn't say Kajukenbo, but if you go to the school they have flyers referring to the Kenpo style as "Kajukenbo/Kenpo".

Offline John Bishop

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2006, 10:00:49 PM »
Dosen't appear to be any Kajukenbo happening there.  According to all their bio's they got their black belts from Dan Cepeda, who is a Parker stylist.  One instructor trained briefly under Chief Al Tejero, who is a CHA-3 kenpo stylist.  There even doing Parker's katas in their videos. 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2006, 02:34:49 PM by John Bishop »
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Palma

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2006, 10:05:29 PM »
that is what i informed the instructor and he became very defensive.

Palma

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2006, 10:27:23 PM »
I say we organize a group of Kajukenbo people (San Clemente and San Diego) and we pay them a little visit.  :-X


Offline dastars

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2006, 11:21:03 PM »
DOJO STORM!!  ;D
Geoff Hurd - Student of Professor Walt Andrae (SGM Halbuna) - Augusta, GA

University of Pittsburgh Kajukenbo

Offline hunter

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2006, 10:02:54 AM »
That's really for sure!  There's not much contact!  More like avoidance.
Seems rather aikido-y.  (Which is fine. But it's not Kaj!)

Going over there might be a good idea. But not in a conflictory way.
Just show them in a sharing session what your understanding of
what KAJU is.  More like a demonstration than a demolition!  LOL
Boston
(where kajukenbo is rare)

Offline Mark Dinkel

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2006, 10:08:45 AM »
I think they know exactly what they are doing simply from their name Brand X Martial Arts.
Student black belt
Sifu GM Vince Black
Orange belt
Instructor Sensei Tobias

Palma

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2006, 08:03:25 PM »
Like i said, I went over there as a visitor and I was very polite, but when I questioned the instructor about the "Kajukenbo" advertising and tecniques he got really defensive. The school is part of Krav Maga Association and from what we have all read from my previous post they are going through a law suit at the moment.

Offline Jeff Martin

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2006, 12:44:58 PM »
Hello,

My name is Jeff Martin, and I am the owner of Brand X.  I found this thread when looking at our websites usage statistics.  This is likely my only post since I am not a Kajukenbo  practioner, however since the thread has turned into a critique of our school and makes several erroneous claims, I felt it necessary to respond. I wrote Mr. Bishop last night and appreciate his invitation to respond to Mr. Palma. 

The original post had a survey and letter regarding Krav Maga in the United States and the legal battle the organization is having.   If you are interested in that battle the Krav Maga association has a forum where this has been exhaustively discussed.  I’m not very interested in politics.


The post by Mr. Palma’s that caught my eye said the following:
"I drove by this school in Poway because I had heard that they were teaching Kenpo-Kajukenbo style self-defense. I checked out their training and I noticed that the instructor was teaching or trying to pass the tecniques he was showing them as Kenpo / Kajukenbo. I corss-trained in Krav Maga in Europe for 4 years and the tecniques he was showing them appeared simliar. I asked the instructor after the class if that was kajukenbo and he said yes, but when I confronted him and explained to him that his tecniques were not Kajukenbo he became very defensive and began ranting about how his instructor informed him that Kenpo / kajukenbo does not have to be stylized and that as a Kajukenbo parcticioner he has every right to add or subtract to the art. I don't know, I guess I was a little upset and perhaps i should have just kept my mouth shut. But i just didn't want people to get an idea that Kenpo / Kajukenbo was really like that.  By the way, the "Kenpo / kajukenbo" instructor also had a big sign in his office of the "Krav Maga Association" logo.  Talk about Identiy theft of the kajukenbo system."


The thread devolves into a critique of the video on our site.  I say with some humor that nobody who has trained with us has ever said we lack contact.  Obviously it is time for a video upgrade. :)

More germane to my response is the assertion that Mr. Palma came to our school and that we claimed to be teaching Kajukenbo/Kenpo.  I don’t know of any of our instructor who would claim that.  We were taught that what we learned was Chinese Kenpo and we're proud of that.   We have a great respect for Kajukenbo and those we have met who train in it.   It would be disrespectful for someone to claim they were Kajukenbo when they were not.  I've known most of the instructors who teach at my school for 15 years.  It is hard for me to imagine any of them "ranting about how his instructor informed him that Kenpo / kajukenbo does not have to be stylized and that as a Kajukenbo practitioner he has every right to add or subtract to the art."

To clear up any "our techniques look like Kajukenbo" discussion; my instructor Sifu Dan Cepeda said he was heavily influenced by your art.  We were taught to take people to the ground and finish them there.  He said that came from Kajukenbo.  I think it is a sign of respect to say that you are influenced by someone else’s art.  That we find what you do useful.  That having been said he/we would never say we were teaching Kajukenbo as an art.

If in talking to one of our instructors there was a misunderstanding about our saying we were influenced by Kajukenbo and it being taken that we were teaching the style I would apologize for that.  There is however an assertion in a later post, that we have printed flyers saying we teach Kajukenbo.  We don’t nor have ever had any flyers claiming we teach Kajukenbo.

Furthermore, my school is not located in Poway, but rather Ramona, 20 minutes outside of Poway, up in the mountains in a little town.  Nobody who has lived in San Diego would ever confuse Poway and Ramona.  We are so far away from anywhere in San Diego, nobody ever just stops by.  I also do not have a big sign in my office with “"Krav Maga Association" logo.   

I am hoping Mr. Palma has merely made a mistake about the school he attended.  Again, if there were a misunderstanding about words that were spoken, I could apologize.  I cannot however address a claim that we have ever had printed material that says we teach Kajukenbo.

If anyone wishes to contact me regarding this my email is listed in my profile, my telephone number is on our website and I am at the school every Monday, Thursday night and Saturday mornings.  I also workout completely alone with the doors unlocked beginning at 2:30 on Tuesday and Thursday.

Respectfully,
Jeff  Martin


Offline John Bishop

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2006, 01:05:34 PM »
Thanks Mr. Martin for the respectful response.  Although not a Kajukenbo practitioner, Dan Cepeda has a long history of friendship with the Kajukenbo family.  Here's a picture from the 70's that you might enjoy.



LtoR: Back row, Chief Al Tejero, Dan Cepeda, Sigung Chuck Turner.  Front row: Prof. Allen Abad, Sijo Emperado, GM Gary Forbach.
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Palma

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Re: I hope this never happens to our Kajukenbo system!!
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2006, 01:08:29 PM »
i made no mistake.