Author Topic: Forms (Katas)  (Read 13330 times)

Offline sig666+

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Forms (Katas)
« on: January 14, 2003, 09:55:06 AM »
I was train with the (YONG FIST) Kata, it is known that this kata was created by Joe Emperado. and I will like to know if there is some one else that was train under this form, and if is still been teach in the Kajukenbo Schools?
this form is not include in the 14 Pinnians. ???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

Offline John Bishop

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Re: Forms (Katas)
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2003, 02:04:09 PM »
I've never heard of it; but that dosent mean anything.  I'd be curious to see it.  I always like to see Kajukenbo techniques I've never been exposed to before, especially if it dates back to Joe Emperado.

Does your organization still refer to the forms as "Pinnians"?  No disrespect meant, but Sijo renamed them "Palama Sets" in 1993.  Because Kajukenbo is spread out around the world I know not everyone is aware of the new name.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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Offline sig666+

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Re: Forms (Katas)
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2003, 04:41:39 PM »
The Kata (YOUNG FIST) with other kajukenbo Forms wish are 10 of them all together are not part of the kajukenbo Pinnians (now palama set) theses kajukenbo forms were teach to me by my Teacher prof: Ortega, in my first few years of kajukenbo training.  And theses forms were review every year by Prof: Don N and Sifu G L Jackson on there trips to the Island of PR, they were part of the development of kajukenbo in the 1970- late 89 in PR. the Pinnians were include in the training in 1991. theses forms and the Young Fist were presented to Sijo in one of the seminar in PR. wish in turn he stated ( that what we created in 1947) very few instructors have them. I presented some of them to Sigung Mike Morlino in a visit that he did to my School in 1995. all Original kajukenbo forms are in reality 24.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

Offline sig666+

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Re: Forms (Katas)
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2003, 07:27:58 PM »
Just to update on the YUNG FIST form, One of my old time kajukenbo Instructor, Call me and stated that the Yung Fist Form was also created with the help of Bruce Lee in the School of Master Ramos a legacy of Bruce Lee to the Development of kajukenbo. If some one have anything else to add,   Place do so.The way of the Fist
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

sleddog

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Re: Forms (Katas)
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2003, 07:01:43 AM »
Historically how is it possible to have a form created by Joseph Emperado (who passed away suddenly in 1958) and then have it created as a tribute by Bruce Lee at Tony Ramos' school in the 1960's?

I do not claim to have a complete knowledge of the Kajukenbo system, but would this information not have been known about - even as just a story- a long time ago?

I repeat sig666's question. Does anybody else do them?
If not they may be great training tools by themselves, but their direct connection to Joe Emperado may be questionable.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:02 PM by -1 »

Offline sig666+

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Re: Forms (Katas)
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2003, 04:21:20 PM »
Bruce Lee train under some of the Kajukenbo Professors in the 1950-60, according  to an old students from that time, Young Fist form was been develop by Joe Emperado and he did not finish it? one of the students that was at the place were Joe was training, wrote the form. He was practicing the form and according to the story? Bruce Lee was observing it and ask for whom was the one that created it, and the student told him that the form was not completed due to the death of Joe, Bruce told him that he was going two but some details so that he (the student) can tell that the form was completed.

Who was the student no one knows...
But I was teach this form during my training in kajukenbo with some few students in the 70..

Just to tell you that no one have all the techniques that was created by Sijo and the cofounders including Joe
I have train with lots of kajukenbo practitioners that are 5,6, and 7 degrees and they only have between 40 and 75 tech.... When in reality there are more than 300..original Kajukenbo techniques and they are in sets of 30 each. I have not teach the young fist to no one. is part of my legacy in the ascenal of the kajukenbo tech....

Sigung/Master: Raymond Trujillo Director and chief Instructor of the New Jersey Kajukenbo Association.

It is not what you know, It's the way you use it..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

Offline John Bishop

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Re: Forms (Katas)
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2003, 09:56:57 PM »
It's supprising how legends and rumors start.  In reality Bruce Lee lived in Hong Kong until 1959, when he moved to Washington state to attend college.  There were no Kajukenbo instructors in Hong Kong or Washington in the 50s.  His training in Hong Kong was in Wing Chun under Yip Man.
It was in the mid 60s that he moved to Oakland, Ca. and started teaching and eventually evolving his own style; Jeet Kune Do.  
Bruce Lee was very vocal in his disdain for forms.  In his words " doing kata is like swimming on dry land".   So, it dosen't seem like he would spend time completing a half finished Kajukenbo kata.    
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
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"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline Mell

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Re: Forms (Katas)
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2003, 06:25:48 PM »
Kind of a change of subjects related to forms.  

Sometimes I purchase videos with martial arts forms on them for fun.  I like to try them in my free time.  Recently I purchased a video on a form which never once showed a demonstration of the form in its entirety.  Not only was it annoying and useless to me, but it lead me to believe the person who produced the video really couldn't run the form themselves.

Anyway - For fun, does anyone recommend any forms video that is on the market for something other than kajukenbo forms?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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Offline Isaguirre

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Re: Forms (Katas)
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2003, 08:03:51 PM »
Many schools cross train with wushu, shoalin kung fu, or tai chi forms.  
The soft motions compliment the hard style.  It is also a great aerobic workout and more physically demanding than your average kata.  Some other benefits include fluid motion, relaxation, and flexibilty.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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Offline Mell

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Re: Forms (Katas)
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2003, 04:38:21 PM »
I have Dr. Paul Lam's Tai Chi video.  It was very well done.  Do you have any specific suggestions?  Thanks!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:03 PM by -1 »
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Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Forms (Katas)
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2003, 11:33:50 AM »
Please describe Joe Emperado's Young Fist forms.
My CHA3 Kenpo branch practices six "beginner" forms
that are different from the Pinian/Palama Sets.
I've verified this by purchasing Gary Forbach's video series. If you're willing to post a detailed description of your first form or at least the first few moves, I'll post my
descriptions.  

From piecing together all sorts of information, perhaps incorrectly, I believe that Joe Emperado had quite
a bit of influence or trained with Marino Tiwanak.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Forms (Katas)
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2003, 12:37:59 PM »
Here is the #1 "Dance" used by my CHA3 Kenpo branch.
Is it similar to any part of Joe Emperado's Young Fist ?

Dance 1
    1  Set.
    2  Step Left, simultaneous Right Groin Kick, Left Upward Strike and Right Elbow Strike
    3  Double elbow strike while Right Step back/right (w/body facing forward)
    4  Cover down, Look to 6 o clock, double slap guard, Left crossstep in front
      of Right Leg, turn head to 12 o clock, Cover
    5  Turn head to 3 o clock, Left Step back, Right Long inward strike, Left Long
          inward strike, Right Long inward strike
    7  Turn head to 12 o clock, double slap guard, Cover
    8  Left Step, Right Slice, Right Heel kick
    9  Cover, come to standing,

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
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Professor Gerry Scott

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Re: Forms (Katas)
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2003, 04:17:24 PM »
Aloha,

I visited Sijo Emperado today at Professor Henry Mandac's residence.  The "Yong - Young Fist" kata, allegedly created by his brother Joe Emperado was discussed.  Sijo was not cogniizant that his brother created the aforementioned kata.  If he had indeed created this kata, it is a mystery to him.  He further stated that the fourteen (14) Palama Sets were created by himself.

Mahalo,

Professor Gerry Scott
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

Offline John Bishop

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Re: Forms (Katas)
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2003, 05:04:17 PM »
Well, I guess that clears up the question of Kajukenbo katas.   Thank You Sijo
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline John Bishop

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Bruce Lee Kajukenbo connection
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2003, 10:58:19 AM »
Here is a letter from Sifu Brian Baxter which sheds some light on the Bruce Lee Kajukenbo connection.



Letter to John Bishop.

I maybe able to shed some light on the subject of the Yueng Chuan Form.

I have lived in the Seattle area most of my life ( I am 54 ). The legacy of Bruce Lee is still alive and well. Not only are most of Bruce Lee's students in the Seattle years, still alive and living in the area, so are two of his instructors.  Fook Yueng and Sid Woodcock.

When Bruce was first back in the United States he stayed with his father's friend and associate, Fook Yueng.

Sifu Fook Yueng is in his early to mid eighties now and does not teach or practice Martial Arts or Chinese Medicine anymore.  He is retired.  

Sifu Fook in the 1960's through 1970's was a cook for Ruby Chow's Restaurant in Seattle and also worked in other Chinese Restaurants in the area.  Bruce was a bus boy at Ruby Chow's.

Sifu Fook was a fairly popular Chinese Opera Star during the 1920's and 1930's until the WWII conflict began in 1936. Actually, Fook was sold to an Opera Troupe by his parents as a very young child. Sifu Fook was trained in a variety of Martial Arts including "Red Boat Wing Chun", Praying Mantis, Tai Chi Chuan, Ba Qua Chang, Monkey Style, and odds and ends of whatever was picked up along the way up and down the coast of China during that time period. Sifu Fook, because of his small stature and physical agility was famed for his role as the Monkey King in the Chinese Opera of the same name.

After WWII, Sifu Fook immigrated to Seattle from Hong Kong. Due to the lengthy hours being a Chinese Gormet Cook, it was impossible to teach each different style and keep things straight and practice the same.  
Due to necessity, Sifu Fook Yueng, developed the style of Yueng Chuan or Yueng Quan.  This style combined several styles but the base was "Red Boat Wing Chun" and a Northern Praying Mantis system.  He had single
forms, weapons forms, some two person forms and an unbelievable amount of "Drills"!

Bruce Lee did do and know form in the beginning of his career.  He just did not like them.

I have taken lessons from Sifu Fook ( Tibetan Chi Kung ) and whenever he was in a good mood and had time would demonstrate and teach some techniques.  I was not around in the 1960's and 1970's to get all of his
system.  I rub elbows with two of his students Dave Harris ( friend and school classmate of Bruce ) and Andrew T. Dale. Both are local Seattle instructors.  In the credentials on Andy's Web site lists Yueng Quan.  
<http://www.wuji.com>

I am sure the Bruce Lee when he was associating with GM Antonio Ramos very likely showed some things he had learned from Sifu Fook.  What form or forms Bruce showed I have not a clue.  It could be from any style
previously mentioned.

Respectfully,

Brian B. Baxter
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado