Author Topic: Provoked into a fight?  (Read 11506 times)

Offline Jason Goldsmith

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2006, 07:24:40 AM »
I have to say my philosophy is very similar to Sifu Cirillo's, semantics aside.  When I was a young kid, I used to get beat up a lot (hence learning martial arts) for being a geek; but I never really was provoked into fighting, I just got swung at, and eventually learned how to end it on my terms.  Now days, you would have to physically threaten my family (wife, parents, etc) or a close friend, or would have to be about to (or actually) attacking an undeserving stranger to get me to fight.  In other words, there has to imminent threat of physical harm to someone I care about, or to someone I don't know, but who doesn't deserve it.
Sifu Jason Goldsmith
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Offline Jason Goldsmith

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2006, 08:05:11 AM »
Professor Harper,

I completely agree with the point you are making, and admit I have been fortunate enough to have not had to be in such a situation in many years.  As a kid, I often didn't put my all in, and you are right, you get your butt kicked.  In the few recent encounters I have had, I haven't made that mistake.  My general outlook is the following: go 100%, and assume I am going to get hurt if I do something.  If I am unwilling to do these two things, I won't act.
Sifu Jason Goldsmith
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Under GM Al Dacascos
Instructor--WHKD
Durham NC and Philadelphia PA
www.tkfmma.com

Offline cirillo

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2006, 10:02:27 AM »
I agree totally with you Prof. Harper.  I have seen it many times.  In my experience, I have to worry less about the ones who are talking and more about the ones that are quiet.  Talkers use their mouths more than their hands.  Just my own rule of thumb.

Well, if we really want to get to details on 'fights' (I still don't count the gun situations, there was no back and forth to any of them, just one side).  Most of the non-weapon situations I am in are on the soccer field.  Somebody loses their cool and starts throwing punches.  These are often all-out brawls, but sometimes one-on-ones or other types of multi-opponent situations.  Nice thing about these... most people can't carry knives or guns on their person while running around on the soccer field.  As for my conclusion to respond... last time it was because I saw one of my teammates turning purple due to a choke hold.  I finished the resistance of the person on him (i.e. pulled him off and choked him out) and that was it.   I don't really like chokes and don't plan to use them normally, but the situation seemed to warrant it.  Didn't have to hurt him bad and he never threw a punch at me.  Not sure if it was a fight.  By the definition here, I guess it was.  I would say that since I left Hawaii (in Hawaii they were more like every game), these situations only happen about once every 6 months for me.  Most of the time I don't have to fight, just listen to some idiot talk and laugh at him. I consider it good tolerance practice. 8)
Sifu Jeffrey D. Cirillo,  7th Degree Black belt in Wun Hop Kuen Do under GM Al Dacascos and 3rd Degree in FaChuan (Blossom Fist) under Sifu Bill Owens with over 35 years experience in the martial arts.
College Station, TX

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2006, 10:22:37 AM »
I have seen this same situation mentioned by Professor Harper.  On more then one occasion, I have stood alone, when helping others or trouble has come upon friends.  I have been in two gun disarm situations, one friends and I one on a stranger...and yes that is a fight...I ended up with the gun both times....luckily
  I have been in the 26 on 3 fight, juts to help friends...but can you leave your friends and still sleep at night...

I get confused when I hear debate over the definition of a fight...we should all know this... I can tell what a pizza looks like in any restaurant...if that makes sense...

It's very sad actually when the mind doesn't allow what the heart really wants.
   No one regrets trying their hardest and losing.  They regret for all their days not having the fortitude to try....Dr J
 A few famous quotes...

"In battle, if you you make your opponent flinch, you have already won."
Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645)

Aye, fight and you may die, run, and you'll live... at least for a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!
William Wallace



"If a fight is sure to happen.. you must fight like it's a good day to die and your fate is already chosen,
then and only then will you fight to the best of your ability on that day at that time...and live your life or so it be your death in Honor."  a quote by me...
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline cirillo

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2006, 10:35:42 AM »
I agree with you on everything Sigung Bono (I like the quotes), except one... I don't think the definition of pizza is clear... the stuff they are serving in California isn't real pizza... back in The Bronx (da bronx... really) we woulda killed somebody for trying to say something that doesn't even taste right, with all those sprouts and things is pizza....  ;D sorry, had to disagree.  Guess that's my nature. 8)
Sifu Jeffrey D. Cirillo,  7th Degree Black belt in Wun Hop Kuen Do under GM Al Dacascos and 3rd Degree in FaChuan (Blossom Fist) under Sifu Bill Owens with over 35 years experience in the martial arts.
College Station, TX

Offline Wado

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2006, 10:55:47 AM »
Professor Harper,

That statement you made about coming into something 1/2 speed and getting hurt really hit home for me. I've been in that situation where I thought it no big deal, I had no real sense of danger. Started out almost friendly and the next thing I know I was wrestling the guy to keep him from hitting me and from breaking any of the glass funiture around (it was at a friend's house). Other people broke the fight up.

As for the question to whether I train to protect others even if that puts me in danger, that is a decision I have made.   I feel that to protect others and get involved is a life decision one makes, there's little or no time to debate about it when the poop hits the fan.

In relation to fighting, I have a philosophy to not fight anyone, I duel them. Just words I know, but it is a constant reminder to myself to be aware of attacking when the enemy is open and to be aware not to leave myself open particularly when I'm attacking. To also not leave myself open to multiple/other enemies.
W. Yamauchi
Mateo Kajukenbo
Seattle, Washington

Offline Dean Goldade

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2006, 12:33:05 PM »
Brother John,
Great topic....

For me, I don't sweat a lot of talk directed to me, ( it will work after awhile though..  >:( ) but talk smack to someone I care about, and you will get what your looking for. My main thing is a hands off policy... Aim agression, or put your hands on me or someone I care about and you better be ready to party..

Today I am a lot older, and mellower, and I don't hang too much in the bars or places where it happens nightly, so aside from your occasional idiot I don't attract a lot of trouble.. ( But we will toss a few back next weekend )..... ;D

When I was younger the majority of scraps involved a friend first ( girl or guy ).... Then I ended up in the middle of it.

I like the quote made by Shaka Zulu ( from New York  / Goju & Jujitsu legend )  on the "Warrior Within"

" You can do pretty much what you want, you can talk sh-t to me... call me a f-g-ot.... Whatever you choose to do.. But if you put your hands on me, I am gonna hurt you... GUARANTEED".........

I think that quote pretty much sums it up... ::)

See ya next week brother

Dean.

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Offline John Bishop

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2006, 12:56:50 PM »

I like the quote made by Shaka Zulu ( from New York  / Goju & Jujitsu legend )  on the "Warrior Within"

" You can do pretty much what you want, you can talk sh-t to me... call me a f-g-ot.... Whatever you choose to do.. But if you put your hands on me, I am gonna hurt you... GUARANTEED".........

I think that quote pretty much sums it up... ::)

See ya next week brother

Dean.



Interesting guy.  Don't forget the rest of the interview.  Goes something like this; "there was this mugging, or I should say an attempted mugging.  One guy had a knife.  They went to the hospital, and I went home". 
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Offline Dean Goldade

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2006, 01:10:32 PM »
Professor Bishop,

Yep... Truly interesting guy... I have a friend in San Antonio who is in his organization and brings him in for training a couple of times a year....

Next time he comes out, I'm gonna go train with them, and see if I can get a few more quotes....  And maybe a lump or two... ;D

Kajukenbo Forever

Dean.
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Offline RWKingi

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2006, 01:33:28 PM »
Well we train to handle our business on the street.  All this stuff looks nice and sounds nice and you get good discipline etc.  But the bottom line is, when you step foot out of our school doors....we know that you can hold your own out there on the street!  Now for me personally it only used to take the right or wrong word or even breath before I had someone put to sleep.  But now that I am a little older and wiser I am not so quick to give someone a good nights rest. 

At this point, I will be provoked if you are a threat to me or my family or once you put your hands on me or any of my loved ones, better believe its a done deal.  But most of the time, I wouldnt call them fights...not to get back on that whole thing.  But, really, if you are going nighty night after one good shot....I wouldnt consider that a fight.  Just a nice punch.   ;D
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2006, 03:54:16 PM »
It's still a fight Robert...just a good fight.... ;D
GM John E Bono DC
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Offline Danjo

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2006, 09:02:53 PM »
I've had to develop a way to slam on the brakes in order not to lose my teaching credential by getting into fights due to other than physical attacks. One good one could cost me a $68, 000.00 per year job with benefits, so I had better be either completly in the right, or else completely unobserved before fighting. Lord help some of those idiots if I ever change professions.

I'll admit that learning to put the brakes on my temper like that feels like a case of emotional whiplash every time it happens. But I think I'd feel worse being out of work.

I think it was better when congressmen could have duels legally. I think we'd have a more polite society if people were worried about getting knocked on their asses with impunity.

I still love to challenge people to "Spar" with me if they want to express thier feelings. The rules of the "sparring match" can be very flexible, and the locations can vary. ;)
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2006, 09:12:11 PM »
Hey everybody...I put out a question and in reality..only a couple people read it and answered it.for the most part as it was said it has been danced around....please read Then answer.....


« on: August 31, 2006, 08:41:14 AM »
   
So boys and girls, let me ask you what can make you enter into a fight.
   I would like to hear from people that have Actually been in a fight, not just hear say or theory.
So how much does someone have to do to be hurt by you???
Yes I rhymed....why does that make you want to fight?
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline envisiontj

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2006, 09:36:55 PM »
I will reitterate mine.  It now takes alot to get me into a fight.  I must feel that I or someone else is in immenent danger.  If so, I will happily jump in and handle business.  I have made worse choices in the past and fought for stupid reasons.  One time a friend and I fought 3 guys just because they were putting up gang signs at us.  I am very anti gang so I took it quite personally.  In the end, I came away unharmed, and the opponents didn't do so well, but it did cost me.  They tried to attack me with a roofing tool and when it didn't work they took out the rear window of my 1976 Cutlass, which was not a cheap fix.

Recently, while in Alaska, I had just gotten off work at the club and walked upon an assault.  It was me and another Security guy from work.  A guy had leaped through some people and socked a woman REALLY hard.  My friend grabbed him and drug him to the street in a choke hold and laid down on the ground controlling him (stupid idea), while I fought off the girls dad, the guys friend, and kept the girl and another girl all off my coworker.  It was rather interesting.  We kept everything under control long enough for the police to get there.  We were off work, so no problems with the job.  Were we right to step in?  I think so.  I saw someone in danger and just decided to help.  That is not always the safest thing to do, but if noone ever does it, how worse would our world be.

So bottom line, I think the answers are going to vary, depending on age and fight experience.  I have been in alot of fights and have decided through my young years that most of them were not worth it.  There are alot of people with no or very little experience to draw from, so there is alot of conclusion and thoughts, but when the "stuff" goes down, it's a different ball game.

Just my thoughts.

Sifu Trent
Sifu Trent Junker
Realm Of The Tiger Kajukenbo - Portland, OR
Under GM Gerry Scott

Offline Wado

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Re: Provoked into a fight?
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2006, 12:05:05 AM »
Hey everybody...I put out a question and in reality..only a couple people read it and answered it.for the most part as it was said it has been danced around....please read Then answer.....


« on: August 31, 2006, 08:41:14 AM »
   
So boys and girls, let me ask you what can make you enter into a fight.
   I would like to hear from people that have Actually been in a fight, not just hear say or theory.
So how much does someone have to do to be hurt by you???
Yes I rhymed....why does that make you want to fight?


To give this question serious thought, the only thing that would provoke me to enter into a fight is when I believe it is the right thing to do. Where ever I've ended up in the past, no matter how stupid it was, I always believed I was doing the right thing.

I've gone up to a person that I know that was a lot bigger than me and all he was doing was sitting down in a place I didn't think he belonged, put him in a hammer lock and escorted him somewhere else. I got an earful of never to touch him again and he punched a hole into a wall, but that was it.

Stupid as it is, I never know how anything is going to turn out, people cease to be people to me when I cross the line, they are just moving objects, targets. I don't think I can answer what they have to do to be hurt by me, I don't feel that way, I know that they will be hurt, it is just a matter of how much.

I hate to fight, I've been lucky that most of the time the other guy backs down. I never want to start something with a drunk or guys that probably won't back down. I'm quick to back down against anyone that is looking for a fight, it just doesn't feel right to me. I'm not into teaching someone a lesson or getting my face punched in. Like I said, they aren't people anymore to me, just targets.

However, I've already made the decision to protect and backup my family and in situations such as someone trying to force me into a vehicle to take me someplace they just might off me. Maybe that's the answer, for me to get involved, someone needs to do something statistically that leads to death or serious injury. Hmmm... maybe that is it.
W. Yamauchi
Mateo Kajukenbo
Seattle, Washington