Author Topic: Making contact with the body during classes  (Read 3123 times)

Offline topkick

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Making contact with the body during classes
« on: March 07, 2007, 02:14:47 PM »
I feel being hit in class allows you to feel what its like to get hit by some one, some systems like choi kwan do,
do not allow you to hit the other student.
My son joined that class and when he was done I asked if he got hit, he said no they dont allow us to get hit in the class
So i went the class and I asked the Instructor why they dont hit each other he said we dont allow that, I asked well how are they going to know what it feels like to hit someone and to be hit?  Instructor had no answer for that one.  any thoughts?
If you cant take the Heat become a cop

Tim Wiza
Volunteer Firefighter for Milan, MI
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, Purple Belt
Professor Richard H. Lewis, Sunnyvale, CA

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Making contact with the body during classes
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2007, 02:29:10 PM »
You need to feel the hits so you don't go into shock when you really get hit.  I have had dozens of students that were from arts that never made contact, some black belts, and the first time they get popped in the face they realize they would have done very badly in a real street fight. Many have said to me that they thought they wasted their time before since the had false self confidence....same deal though those teachers had nothing to say.......
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline NYKaju

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Re: Making contact with the body during classes
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2007, 03:03:51 PM »
I feel being hit in class allows you to feel what its like to get hit by some one, some systems like choi kwan do,
do not allow you to hit the other student.
My son joined that class and when he was done I asked if he got hit, he said no they dont allow us to get hit in the class
So i went the class and I asked the Instructor why they dont hit each other he said we dont allow that, I asked well how are they going to know what it feels like to hit someone and to be hit?  Instructor had no answer for that one.  any thoughts?

I've read up quite a bit about CKD. Run away, run far away is the best advice I can give. Reason why: http://www.suttonckd.co.uk/on-the-streets.htm

To have people with no experience claim to be able to teach you self defense is incredibly irresponsible, and the fact that they tout their lack of experience as a selling point is reason enough for me to stay away.

An excerpt from an interview with CKD instructor Ralph Allison.
TKD-KMA: If I can pick you up on that. Choi is known as a non competitive art, so how can it be effective as self defence?

Ralph Allison: "Point sparring" in competitions are not realistic with regard to street defence, in my opinion. On the street it's "no holds barred", no rules and no "fouls". Also receiving full or even semi contact punches all the time doesn't make you stronger. You run around with bruises for the rest of the week not being in full health and therefore, in my opinion, LESS ready for the REAL attack when it happens on the street. We in CKD are ever-ready in full health and fit. Boxers for example know the expression 'punch drunk' all too well, when you get used to being punched: desensitize yourself like that and your body will give you a bitter 'revenge' when you get older - I promise you that. Our techniques are far too powerful to be used in full contact - if we did then after one class I wouldn't have any students left, they would all end up in hospital. We kick and punch the thickest shields available on the market - and seeing the power we produce on them you can readily see that no one could withstand that kind of impact.

The realism of Choi can only be understood when you see it. I have a guy in my class who did full contact Muay Thai Boxing for over 10 years. This guy was amazed at our techniques and the realism he witnessed. So much in fact, that he gave up Muay Thai and joined CKD. Just because we don't hospitalise each other in class doesn't mean we aren't fast and powerful - believe me: we are. Anybody is welcome to witness this in class. But we also take care of those who need to be guided slowly - as I said before, we are non-exclusive, we're open to all.

TKD-KMA: What elements of Choi relate directly to the street environment?

Ralph Allison: We do not waste our time on things that don't work, therefore EVERYTHING we do relates to the street environment. That is another beauty of CKD - even our own patterns can be broken down as an imaginary street fight. We have punches and kicks as well as 'infighting' i.e. close range attacks in CKD. All aspects are covered. We use (plastic) knifes and (rubber) baseball bats and show our students how to get out of the trickiest situations that can occur on the street. I have seen how even the most shy person turned into a very confident student after even just a short while. This tells me Choi really works - not only in the Dojang but on the street as well.


Take that as you will.
Sensei/Coach James Mayors
Ronin Martial Arts
Kajukenbo under Dan Tyrrell
BJJ under Matt Serra
Judo under Mark Staniszewski
"You don't rise to the level of your expectations, you fall to the level of your training"

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Making contact with the body during classes
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2007, 04:02:27 PM »
I'm truly dumbfounded by the stuff I just witnessed.......the fantasy land of self defense.......
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

LOYALONEHK

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Re: Making contact with the body during classes
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2007, 04:34:27 PM »
Call me sick and twisted but I like the pain and blood.  Its addictive to me, more than any drug...  Maybe thats one of the reasons I have stuck with Prof. Harper all of these years.  If I didnt get my regular beatings I might not have been raised right.  (Right by the end of his boot)   :o   ;D

Its the same reason I am so covered in tat's, to me the pain is a great stress release and keeps me from killing my boss at work.  Kind of an anger management thing with added benefits. 

If your not making contact, your just dancing.  PFA saying...


Offline topkick

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Re: Making contact with the body during classes
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2007, 04:57:28 PM »
That is a great way of expressing it If you make no cantact your just dancing around excellant.
Reading that interview it sounds like he was talking about making full contact with all the moves.
If we did that we would have people in the hospital every class, thats why we make contact but we dont use full force, we hit the body just enough to say "remember me.... Sting/Pain!"

I like the contact and miss it that is why I need to find a class here in Michigan.

If you cant take the Heat become a cop

Tim Wiza
Volunteer Firefighter for Milan, MI
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, Purple Belt
Professor Richard H. Lewis, Sunnyvale, CA

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Making contact with the body during classes
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2007, 06:02:43 PM »
Also as you train your tolerance grows rapidly....medium contact becomes to light, hard contact just seems like they are showing you the Love.
A rule at my school is if someone hits you easy (assuming they are at the same level) they are disrespecting you and you get to hit them twice and twice as hard.  If it continues we line them up with the class, so they can feel the technique from everyone in the room and know the level they should be at......
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline RizZ

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Re: Making contact with the body during classes
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2007, 07:26:57 PM »
In order to learn, you need some contact.  You have to train hard and when you do, you get bruises the next day and dont know how you got them.  That is because you are working so hard, the pain doesnt bother you until the next day.  I also play competitive basketball and being 6 foot and 185 lbs, I get beat up a lot by the 6'8", 240 lbs. kids on the court.  I dont feel the pain as I play, but afterwards, I am very sore.  But its good pain, it means I played hard.  You dont want to kill youself or your classmate, but some pain and contact is a must in any sport that you participate in.  Anyone who thinks different is living in a fairy tale land.
Scott Goldstein
Kajukenbo Black Belt - 1st Degree
Under Sifu Victor Ballesteros & Sifu Virgilio de Carvalho
Frontyard Fighting Arts - Nyack, NY

Lakan Isa
Pekiti-Tirsia Kali