Author Topic: Armbars and concrete  (Read 2604 times)

Offline John Bishop

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Armbars and concrete
« on: May 25, 2007, 09:56:18 PM »
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
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Offline Bill Tackett

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Re: Armbars and concrete
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2007, 11:38:19 PM »
Most certainly not against a fresh unhurt opponent... As with every technique it has its place when done with the proper timing and work being done to allow it. Against a fresh opponent that you haven't even stunned, perhaps not so much  ;D

Offline TFG

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Re: Armbars and concrete
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2007, 01:54:05 AM »
That's what happens when you mix up an unemployed Marine & a drunk pathological lier. There was no honor in that fight and it's a shameful representation of MMA, but it does make great entertainment for the kids :-\

Staying on the ground and attempting an Armbar turned out to be a bad idea for him, and should serve as an example of why IMHO it's best to stay on your feet.
Jason Hahn
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Under Sifu Brian & Linda Walker

Offline NYKaju

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Re: Armbars and concrete
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2007, 02:16:58 AM »
Armbar is good if the timing is right. It didn't exactly doom him that it failed, but then again it failed against someone who knew how to defend it without getting subbed first.

As for the whole situation....just embarrassing, and it's sad that the UFC decides to just run with this kind of spectacle type nonsense. Just furthers the point of those who decry MMA as a pseudo-sport for thugs, and hot-headed idiots.
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Offline Bill Tackett

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Re: Armbars and concrete
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2007, 12:06:02 PM »
Saying staying on your feet is the best thing is obvious as a standup practitioner. Unfortunately you don't always have the option to stay on your feet and if you do get knocked down *which he did* you better have SOMETHING to allow you to defend or at least make space to get up. He thought his arm bar was strong enough to hook it in but he was wrong. If it would have worked and he would have cranked to break the arm, which I don't believe he had the heart to do in that situation, you would have seen a different outcome. From that position he could easily have broken the arm without giving time for a tapout, he just did not have the heart in that situation to do it. You could tell that by the fact that he got angry and indignant when he got his head bounced on the concrete, he didn't take the fight as serious he saw it as an "MMA" situation where someone would be there to stop it if he got a tapout in. A quick arch of the back and the arm is broken at the instance of the leg crossing the opponents body, which they did. All in all it was a so so street fight but didn't represent the arts well at all, I didn't see it as a great street fight though because it wasn't one. It was 2 guys that did not feel threatened, that did not really have to protect themselves from a dirty rough street situation where your life is in danger.

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Armbars and concrete
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2007, 05:11:12 PM »
If it really was a street fight and he went for the arm, he should have broke it not gone for the tap.....broken arm stops the slam....
he was forced to guard, if he could have stayed up he would.....he couldn't....
GM John E Bono DC
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Offline TFG

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Re: Armbars and concrete
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2007, 08:39:48 PM »
Staying on the ground and attempting an Armbar turned out to be a bad idea for him, and should serve as an example of why IMHO it's best to stay on your feet.

Since I'm new here I should point out I have nothing against ground work. I just prefer to leave "running" as a viable option. It's true this wasn't a street fight and the guy was on his back, but he did have an opportunity to get back up on his feet. I wouldn't want to play the ground game on concrete especially with a trained defender.

For those who didn't watched the entire fight, it started in the grass, and the Marine got his back slammed into concrete landscaping edging. Then he tried an armbar and was slammed into the ground, then it moved unto the tile floor.
The third slam was the charm.

You could make the case that this was worse then a street fight. Both these guys are trained and one of these guys could have been killed.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2007, 08:42:30 PM by TFG »
Jason Hahn
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Under Sifu Brian & Linda Walker

Offline badsifu

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Re: Armbars and concrete
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2007, 08:56:29 PM »
If you are retarded you try to hold the submission after your body has been lifted off the ground.  You do have the option to let go
Dan Tyrrell

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Armbars and concrete
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2007, 10:14:58 AM »
The option to get up in this instance was not there, he was taking down, as you know if you saw the fight.....it is difficult to get up if a skilled fighter is striking down on you, unless you are more skilled on the ground.......ask any student at my 3 hr ground and pound class yesterday.
When lifted up off the ground correct technique is to pull up tight to the person lifting as you are going up and then when the descent starts you lengthen your arms to meet the ground ....as you begin to hit you pull yourself up again....head tucked up the entire time. 
I'm hoping you can picture this, it's like catching an egg, where you control the force to the ground...........this does work and if you prctice this it puts Alot of pressure on the lifters low back.....

 Another option, is pull very close like a Boxers clinch with the lift and at the top of the lift drop your feet to the ground, then make a level change and double leg or apply a Greco clinch for your own takedown.....  Goodtimes I say........of course you guys never hear me say that....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision