Author Topic: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?  (Read 13110 times)

Offline kajudru

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Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« on: October 27, 2007, 12:12:06 AM »
All,

So I should be receiving my first belt promotion next week. I thought I was going to be getting a yellow belt, but my instructor said they only do color belts for kids. He said we get black stripes on our white belt until brown belt level. So basically, it goes white->brown->black. I don't care either way, but I never heard of this belt ranking system and was just curious if anyone has?

« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 12:14:50 AM by kajudru »
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Offline Dean Goldade

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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2007, 09:53:21 AM »
All,

So I should be receiving my first belt promotion next week. I thought I was going to be getting a yellow belt, but my instructor said they only do color belts for kids. He said we get black stripes on our white belt until brown belt level. So basically, it goes white->brown->black. I don't care either way, but I never heard of this belt ranking system and was just curious if anyone has?



Dru,
That is really an old school way to do it. Many schools back in the day just did white / brown / black.
A brother school of ours that teaches old school JJJ still does it that way.

I like the idea.. Sometimes I just want to toss the belts altogether, and maybe use different colored T shirts, or whateva...

The belt is only an indicator of where you are at in your school or system. If it is indicated by the amount of stripes on a white belt, then you have the guage... Your instructor and you know where you fall in line in your school, and that is the most important thing.

The belt is not the reason to train, it is only a by-product of the training. Just train hard and all the rest will fall in place.

Dean
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Offline kajudru

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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2007, 10:28:42 AM »
Quote from: Dean Goldade
Dru,
That is really an old school way to do it. Many schools back in the day just did white / brown / black.
A brother school of ours that teaches old school JJJ still does it that way.

I like the idea.. Sometimes I just want to toss the belts altogether, and maybe use different colored T shirts, or whateva...

The belt is only an indicator of where you are at in your school or system. If it is indicated by the amount of stripes on a white belt, then you have the guage... Your instructor and you know where you fall in line in your school, and that is the most important thing.

The belt is not the reason to train, it is only a by-product of the training. Just train hard and all the rest will fall in place.

Dean

Thanks Dean. The only time I can see this becoming a problem is when I get up there in rank and start going to tournaments I'll probably get some strange looks when they see me sparring with a blue or green belt. They probably think they are going to wipe the floor with me and then be shocked when they realize a white belt just kicked their butt. I guess people at tournaments are use to seeing crazy belt rankings because a green in Kaju is right before a black, but it's only the 3rd belt in TKD.

I agree with you that belts are not the reason for training.
Sihing Jason Drury
KSDI Student under Sifu Bill Ross (Tony Lasit Branch)
Elite Combat Academy
http://www.shreveportmartialarts.com/
Shreveport, LA

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Offline NYKaju

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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2007, 11:04:12 AM »
Dru, that is precisely why when in cross-style/organization competitions belts shouldn't be used, but rather time spent training. I believe most tournaments that allow open styles go by this standard mind you, but I've seen a few here and there that went by rank color because they were the same style, but didn't account for different organizations developing their own ranking structure  :P

On a side note, every time I step into a no-gi competition, I have no idea what I'm up against, because if it's the guys first tournament with a certain promotion, he could be sandbagging for all I know. Gotta go in there guns blazing and finish it fast  :-X
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Offline Spaniard

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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2007, 12:45:14 PM »
It was for economy, but my TKD instructor just had us go white, brown, black, but he still referred to the level by the color it should have been or he would refer to them by kyu or fret (he also played guitar.)
Erik P., 2nd degree Black Belt Kajukenbo under Sifu Jim Fassler Chrisitan Kajukenbo Ministry, White Belt American Kenpo, 1st Black Belt Tae Kwon Do OhDoKan
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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2007, 10:43:32 PM »
There's an instructor in AZ (not Kajukenbo) who is a West Point grad, retired military, etc., and he has a different way of doing adult belts.  You start with a white belt.  There are 8 levels to black.  As you pass each level, your white belt is dipped in black -- first 1/8th, for the passing the first level, then the next eighth for the next level, and so on. 

There are so many different ways of doing belts -- so much so that it is difficult to compare even within a system, let alone across systems. 

There seems to be a movement away from belts altogether -- which for more and more practitioners is viewed as a good thing.  Particularly when some systems hand out 2nd degree black belts to kids 6 years old and younger. 

The focus is not the belt.  It's the training. 

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2007, 12:34:28 AM »

There seems to be a movement away from belts altogether -- which for more and more practitioners is viewed as a good thing.  Particularly when some systems hand out 2nd degree black belts to kids 6 years old and younger. 

You leave us with hope for the future.  I see just see more and more belts and stripes until you go to the fighter gyms. 
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2007, 10:21:46 AM »
I use belts, I dropped Gi's in the mid '90's but the belts we use to wipe sweat and blood.  I have always liked the idea of different shirts, that was a JKD thing we used to do.  It's just having all the shirts on hand.  I thought about Tattoos but then I do have a few kids training......kidding about that people.

As far as fighters gyms, for the most part most of the people training form what I have observed are tough in their own mind....it seems guys with 6 months training think they are big time fighters with lots of knowledge.  I think the tradition of the arts is great and some things like respect and logic should come to play......now I don't know that belts is the answer, but it does keep things at least the way I run a class in perspective.
  Far less students seem to be as motivated as I remember being in the early days and even now.  I think part of that is lack of discipline to follow through with training.  There are a lot  of people be- bopping from school to school picking up very little knowledge and in their own minds thinking they know that school's game.  You got a lot of new students that have an idea of what is going on but can't apply anything.

Some where there has to be some tradition that leads to Martial artists that respect the fact that they are in a fighting art, and they should have some Honor.  If more head Instructors put the hammer on their new people when they see the signs of disrespect I think this would help.

 Many instructors I believe are getting away from belts to show they don't are about them as proof they are progressive........I don't know...the military uses rank......seems to work for them.....
do you see a marine disrespect his CO..........not so much....of course they demanded respect long before there was a problem.......


 Belts.....shirts......tattoos.....something to ponder........

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Offline badsifu

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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2007, 11:04:03 AM »
Unfortunately, in some styles, the belt has become the reward.  "This is a Black Belt School!"  "You too can become a Black Belt"  I am waiting to see the advertisement where they just say "Enroll now and get your Black Belt"  The studio would justify it by saying that they are a Black Belt in Training.  They get to wear the belt, but they aren't really a black belt yet.  The business side of me wants to say sure, use the belts as a tool to retain students.  The artist in me says funk that and drop the belts altogether.  The students will stay if the classes are fun and they are learning the things they want to learn.  I think the exception to the sellout craze has been Judo and BJJ.  They tend to keep their rankings based on performance in competition.

For Dru, I think the belt system used to be White and Black.  You got a brown belt because of all the time you spent training and it got stained with blood, sweat, oil, dirt, etc.  The color belt system was Kano's creation for Judo.  Everyone else took that and ran with it.  Honestly, it is all subjective.  My purple belt is someone else's black belt.  So you could have 3 stripes on your white belt and really be kicking some booty.  Who knows right?

I don't wear my belts for a few reasons.  One, it keeps me humble (no, seriously, stop laughing...stop it!  I am serious!)  Second, when I go to workout in class or with someone else's class I know I am earning my spot/respect on the floor for my effort that day as opposed to what I did 10-15 years ago.  Finally, a lot of students will bend and move better for you if they already know you are a black belt - especially a high rank.  I forget what that is called, but there is a name for it.  I want my stuff to work because I am making it work, not someone moving for my rank.  I still have my belts and I have a gi too.  It has all kinds of cool patches and stuff on it.  Maybe I'll wear it this next year so you all can be jealous of my patches.
Dan Tyrrell

Offline envisiontj

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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2007, 12:06:03 PM »
Professor Bono, great post.  Personally, I still wear a gi alot of times and students are required to own them and bring them to class, but they don't always wear them - it's a training thing I have talked about before.  I have considered the tattoo issue for new Black Belts, but then I have some people who DO NOT ever want a tattoo, and I respect that and don't want to force something so permanent.  I like the belts and I think that some sort of rank structure and heirarchy is important.  When the heirarchy is eroded and everyone considers themselves an equal, I see alot of ego and disrespect happening.  This society is always trying to find a newer "better" way to do things, but if they have been working why the heck change them???  They should just leave some things alone and quit trying to make changes just for the sake of change.
Sifu Trent Junker
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napashifu

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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2007, 12:24:56 PM »

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2007, 05:44:07 PM »
Sifu Trent when someone makes Black at my school.......there is just a handful though, I bring them and pay for their Tattoo..if they didn't want it then we Tattoo a five knuckle print on them and respect their wishes.....well respect is relative here.....
GM John E Bono DC
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Offline Mitch Powell

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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2007, 08:48:29 PM »
There is nothing wrong with the belt ranking system as long as the students earns the belt. When belts are given away the teacher, the student, and the art suffer!

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Offline John Bishop

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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2007, 10:02:08 PM »
I know when your a black belt you sometimes forget how great it was to get those color belts.  Especially the first one.  Someone mentioned about the military having ranks.  I'm sure when your a captain or colonel, you don't think it's a accomplishment to be a corporal.  But when your the private who's worked hard to get his second stripe, it means a lot to you. 

And it's a great sense of accomplishment for the instructor, students, parents/guests, at the end of a grueling test when the belts are presented.  I agree with Prof. Powell that instructors should make their students earn their belts.  We all know that there are McDojo's that give out black belts in the time it takes most Kajukenbo students to get a purple belt.  But my experience with Kajukenbo schools is that they're usually very conservative in giving out rank.  The more time and effort it takes to earn a rank, the more value it has.     
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Offline NYKaju

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Re: Does Anyone Else Use This Belt Ranking System?
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2007, 10:21:32 PM »
Finally, a lot of students will bend and move better for you if they already know you are a black belt - especially a high rank.  I forget what that is called, but there is a name for it.  I want my stuff to work because I am making it work, not someone moving for my rank.

Sifobia (fear of disrespecting ones Sifu) also known as Sensei-phobia to those who use Japanese titles ;D

It's quite fun stuff actually. You can make anyone do literally anything if they respect you enough. Obviously, no one wants to be "that guy" who resists during technique demonstrations or questions their instructor's wisdom. You get to really feel like a Jedi master, effortlessly flipping and flopping your uke's/student's lifeless bodies up and down the mat with the most convoluted and ridiculous techniques you can imagine, all the while they praise you for it :)
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