Author Topic: Why are there so few women in Kajukenbo?  (Read 11325 times)

Offline empty minded

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Re:Why are there so few women in Kajukenbo?
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2003, 02:13:48 AM »
     I found and intresting article at www.sportsinjurybulletin.com regarding the incidence of injuries in martial arts training.   The study was done at George Washington University and it compared the rate of injuries between men and women in martial arts.  First, they found they could expect an injury in every 48 hours of training. That translates into about 4 injuries per year for men by theri calculations.  That compares with an injury once every 50 hours of play in rugby, a notoriously hard hitting sport.  What was interesting, was that women were injuried twice as often as men in the martial arts and could expect 7 injuries per year.  Even more interesting, after 2 1/2 years of training, women were injuried less often, now at the same rate as men.  I wonder if men were injuried twice as often for the first 30 months of training, would the drop out rate be the same as for women.  I also wonder if something could be done to lower the rate of womens injuries for the first 2 1/2 years without offering watered down training that would leave themselfes incapable of defending themselves or dissatisfied that they are being treated differently than men.  Does this study jive with your observations in your schools?  Could this be the reason there are so few women in Kajukenbo?           Thanks---KimWeslia
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Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re:Why are there so few women in Kajukenbo?
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2003, 04:06:59 PM »
I'll start off by saying that I believe that from an self-defense equalization perspective, women need martial arts training more than men.   As an instructor, I have always provided an encouraging environment for women to learn in my organizations.  

Thanks for posting the link to that article, Kim.  Unless there   was more information, the article already suggested a method to reduce the injury rate among females.   The paper deftly avoids the issue of men and women training  together although we know that organized sports are segregated this way.  The observations in the paper generally  "jive" with my observations, although I'd like to add that the smaller than average (thinner or shorter) men seem to have a higher rate of injury, both in rough training exercises and in sparring.  A solution would be to  match students by size and strength, although in martial arts, this is difficult due to the generally smaller number of participants.
Organized sports select by the attributes required for the activity,  although not in a manner as explicit as the method used at various carnival rides.  Basketball selects for taller people.  Football selects for heavier people, although it's more by the specialty of the position.   Tennis selects for aglity, although it's pretty clear that power is a key element of the game.  Martial arts, on the other hand, are different from other sports in that the arts present a program for equalizing differences, be they size, strength,  physical conditioning, etc.  Overall, I think martial arts programs can be tweaked to reduce the injury rates, but to follow the example of other organized sports would undermine a fundamental of martial arts.



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Offline Mell

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Re:Why are there so few women in Kajukenbo?
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2003, 11:18:56 AM »
As someone who has a high injury rate, I attibute it to wanting to be one of the "Guys" and pushing just a bit harder than what my body can reasonably handle.  

I say this now as I am sitting at home unable to train now for about two weeks as I have put my back out again.  

I think in general, women are a bit more hard headed than men and therefore prone more frequent injury.  I'm not saying that to put myself or other women down, but just to make a statement that we are highly ambitions - nothing wrong with that.

Though I have posted questions about all women's classes, I too believe that training with people of varing sizes and strengths is a must for proper training.  So I would agree with "Gints".  Martial arts is not a sport and cannot therefore be handle by size comparision.  
« Last Edit: December 28, 2003, 11:21:34 AM by Mell »
Sibak Mellody Porter
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Offline Serene

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Re:Why are there so few women in Kajukenbo?
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2003, 08:54:54 PM »
In addition, I believe that we get hurt in the first two years because we have never experienced being hit before.

Also, there are those that want to see what we are truly made of. ;)

Eventually, we become accustomed to the training and therefore are able to go with the blows rather than just take them. ;D

Soifua,
Sifu Serene Terrazas
Head Instructor
Terrazas Kajukenbo
American Canyon, Ca.

Offline Brandi Ross

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Re:Why are there so few women in Kajukenbo?
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2003, 09:05:32 PM »
I agree with those comments.  We got to do some pounding through the chest protectors.  It was full contact, no blocking, just stand there and take the hits.  Those pads are thin.  All we did was kiai and take it.  This helps us work up to taking a full hit with not padding.  First, though, toughen the body and get used to it.  I'm used to it, but some others are not.  When we do stuff like this, we lose them for about a week and then they return.  It's almost as if we are scaring them away.  Isn't reality full contact?  We have injuries just like everyone else.  The more I get hit the better I feel about being able to take punishment down the line.  The higher the skill level, the harder the hits.  I've had my fair share of injuries and I know there will be more to come.  And, yes, I do think that sometimes there are those that want to see what we are made of.  That's the way my sigung was taught, that is what his sons do and that is what I learn: old, hard style.  On a side note, we still have an equal number of men to women in our class.

Aloha,
Brandi
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Jacob Hopkins

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Re:Why are there so few women in Kajukenbo?
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2004, 07:23:04 PM »
With respect to male-vs-female abilities, it's been my experience that similar human bodies have similar potential, ie: boys and girls the same size can dish it out and take it, equally.  However, a woman does have a womb and although she can take a lot in the stomach, prolonged abdominal punishment can lead to long term damage.  It’s a really complicated and beautiful machine designed to produce life - be nice to it!  So build up your stomach resistance so you can take it, but don't feel the need to re-prove and re-prove it all the time - it's probably not worth it.  The rest of the body's fare game though! :D

Interesting factoid:  Women are actually better at handling high degrees of physical stress then men on average.  Their smaller frames make them better candidates as jet fighter pilots and as astronoughts.  NASA even knew this before they sent men into space and a few women were trained but the program was cancelled at the last minute because it was decided that the American public probably wouldn’t approve.

Thank you for the opportunity to voice my opinion.  (I stumbled upon this post site last night - what a great resource!)

Respectfulyy,

Jacob Hopkins
Green Belt
Emperado & Chu’an Fa methods
Under Sigung Philip Gelinas
Montreal, Canada.

PS – I’ve been told that it’s probably not a good idea for anyone to push your body to the limit for an extended length of time (more than 10 years).  Because it tends to wear out, and in a time when people are routinely living into their 80’s I can’t help but not want to spend the last 20 years in a wheel chair.  That said, I’m not really satisfied at the end of a class unless I’ve been made into a 225 pound rag doll!

Offline Serene

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Re:Why are there so few women in Kajukenbo?
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2004, 12:52:48 AM »
Jacob:

Thanks for stumbling in. ;) Good points.

Stumble by anytime. ;D

Soifua,
Sifu Serene Terrazas
Head Instructor
Terrazas Kajukenbo
American Canyon, Ca.

Offline Kaju Bear

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Re:Why are there so few women in Kajukenbo?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2004, 07:06:13 AM »
Kajukenbo is a tough art especially to get a black belt in but is that really why we have fewer women black belts then other arts? There is no doubt from my experiences that there are fewer women in general that start classes then men. This makes it especially noticeable with regard to the overall lower percentage of female students as compared to male students, which will eventually reach this rank.

It is unfortunate that we are unable to successfully advance more women within Kajukenbo to this rank. We as an organization perhaps are failing to provide the necessary direction, motivation, guidance that will assist these students to reach that rank.  I know that when I was advancing up the ranks, under Sigung Robert Heuer, he only promoted one female to student black belt. Most did not make it past green belt level. I always thought this a contradiction to what I thought should be every teacher’s ultimate goal for each student. I know that is an impossible task to believe as a teacher you can advance each student to black belt but Serene brings up a good point. Shouldn’t there really be more female black belts?

I read here that a lot of people believe that we don’t have more female black belts because they are weaker biologically on average then men. Some have said that because women have less free time, they don’t make it. That women are perhaps less motivated or dedicated because Kajukenbo is a contact activity. These aren’t reasons they are excuses. The martial arts are a study in hand to hand combatives that teaches and preaches the lessons that if you have a good understanding of technique execution, human anatomy, practical physics, self awareness, mental discipline, and strong will or spirit that you can over come and even defeat opponents whom are stronger, larger, bigger.

How is this concept more advantageous for men then women? Are our biological differences as men really that big of an advantage? It is my opinion that we cater to this stereo type of men are strong to an extreme. I know that my mother was a hell of a good fighter with a will beyond most men I have meet. I even saw her take down my 6’8’’ step father years ago in a family battle royal. I personally just don’t buy into the idea that Kajukenbo is just too tough for women. It’s tough regardless of your gender. We should try looking at how we are attracting and more importantly retaining students in spite of their gender. I guess what I am thinking is as an organization what are we doing as teachers to ensure that more women stick it out to become black belts?
Sifu Morg Olsen
3rd degree, Emperado Method, Senior Grand Master Kaanana
1st degree, Tum Pai, Grand Master Robert Heuer

Offline Serene

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Re:Why are there so few women in Kajukenbo?
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2004, 03:33:08 PM »
Sifu Morg I appreciate your honesty. In addition, thank you for opening pandoras box all the way. ;)

Yes, I agree they are all excuses. I had this discussion with one of my instructors. He too mentioned that many women stop because of their children, work or other reasons. I just looked at him and said yeah and? :P

It is a mind over matter issue. So long as we accept thess excuses they will continue to arise. It is unfortunate that we see less women and because of that we hide behind the excuses. There's a problem.

Personally speaking its hard very hard as a person in the art.  It's not the physical aspect its the mental part thats challenging. I continue Kaju because thats my choice.

Motivation and inspiration are important. I find that when I teach other women or girls they are just jazzed to see a female black belt. It as if they never thought there were women black belts. ;)

Possibly, the few that are around need to make their presence known to other females? I try my best to attend belt promotions, visit schools, tournaments, and seminars to let them know that we are here. ;D

It's a challenge. I wonder if other female martial artist would like to take that challenge by going out and making their presence known to other females?

Sorry for the babble but its been a long time question of mind-Where the heck are the other women? ;)

What do you think Sifu Morg am I on the right path or am I trippin again? ::)

As always everyone's comment are appreciated.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Soifua,

 
Sifu Serene Terrazas
Head Instructor
Terrazas Kajukenbo
American Canyon, Ca.