Author Topic: "Use of Titles"  (Read 7475 times)

Karazenpo

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"Use of Titles"
« on: February 20, 2003, 05:16:42 PM »
   I was wondering how many use titles for instructors in the various schools on this site. I'll tell you a funny story. I never used titles, it was always "Joe" and actually I still use "Joe". However, when using my name on martial arts related subjects, I always use the title of shihan I received from Professor Cerio in 1992, truthfully out of respect to the late Professor, not to mention I was proud to earn it from him, but there's more to the story than that.
    I was teaching a seminar along with the Professor held at one of his schools in R.I. It had to do with police self defense (defensive tactics) in regards to teaching martial arts instructors how to teach police officers for the U.S. Police Defensive Tactics Association. Everything was going great (so I thought) until Professor Cerio took me aside and told me nothing aggravated him more than when one of my students would refer to me as "Joe" instead of Shihan Shuras (as you can tell, Professor was strict on the protocol of using titles). I said to him respectfully, "Professor, you have to understand, I've been a cop since 1977, I've been called a lot of things during that time, I'm perfectly happy when I hear just 'Joe'!"  With that he gave me a smile and a wack off the head and we went on with the seminar.
  I'm still more comfortable using my first name when teaching but out of respect to the Professor and the great appreciation & pride for him bestowing the title of shihan on me I use it in all written exchanges. I also believe titles should always be used in signing certifications.
  I'm curious to hear from others on their personal preferences on this subject. Ofcourse, when visiting other schools or events, I always observe the proper protocol that is expected.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:02 PM by -1 »

Offline John Bishop

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2003, 05:48:01 AM »
We use formal titles in my school and most of the Kajukenbo schools I've visited.  My personal policy is that the titles are used in the school and when at martial arts functions.  Once outside the school or in phone conversations, first names are fine.  
To make it a little informal or friendly, first names are used with the title such as "Sifu Mike".  If theres only 1 Sifu, Sigung, etc. in class, than just addressing him/her as "Sifu" , "Sigung", "Sihing", "Sibak"etc. is fine.  
I feel respectfully addressing instructors or assistants is a important part of martial arts etiquite.  


Now, another question.  How many schools use the feminine titles such as "Simo" for their female black belts?      
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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ShaolinKempoSensei

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2003, 10:59:27 AM »
Hello Shihan Shuras!

Titles.... man can they create an ego larger than one can handle.  However, they are also an important aspect of the martial arts.

I like "sensei".  In my art of Shaolin Kempo Karate, when one reaches 5th dan they are given (actually it's really just automatic and not really awarded as some titles are) the title "Master" or "Shihan".  You can use either one, it just depends on which you prefer.

However, titles should not be used outside of the martial arts venue.  I don't require my students to address me as sensei or master outside of the school.  In fact, I don't require it in the school.  I ask that they use proper titles in front of the youth students, so the youth student can learn respect.  But I cannot see demanding a title to be used if one doesn't wish to call me that.  "Mr. Evans" will do just fine.

My students address me as sensei because I have earned their respect.  Not just because I have earned the rank.  And I prefer not to draw attention to myself outside of the dojo by being addressed as sensei.  I guess another reason is to allow me to be more approachable by the student.  I want them to know that I care more about them than I do about my status in the martial arts.

I guess in closing I will just say this.  If you use a title beware that you don't abuse it.  Don't demand respect from your students, command it.


With respect,
John Evans
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:02 PM by -1 »

Offline John Bishop

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2003, 11:59:01 AM »
Hi John, welcome to the forum.  Cool name.  
Mine's, John Evan Bishop.  Evans was my great grand mothers maiden name, so about 4 generations of Bishop's have it for a middle name with or without a "s".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

ShaolinKempoSensei

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2003, 12:22:58 PM »
Hello Sigung!

With a name like that you must be good!   ;)  

I have read many posts here and can see myself spending some more time catching up on all of the topics.  This is a great message board.


-John

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

Karazenpo

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2003, 06:32:20 AM »
Hello Sesei John,
                            Welcome to the board! Are you guys still digging out over there in N.H. We got 27.5 " registered at Logan in that last one. Hope all is well and as always your input is always welcome! Shihan Joe
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

ShaolinKempoSensei

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2003, 08:05:07 AM »
Hey Shihan Shuras!

Yep, we are still digging out!  My brother will be coming over today with his plow to help me with the rest of what I coudn't do with my mind power... oops, wrong topic!  (I mean shovel!)   ;D

This is a great msg. board.  Thanks for telling me about it!


-Master Shihan Sensei Sifu Guro Mr. John Evans

(how's that for a title!!!)



Ps.  I hope that didn't offend anyone... I am just having fun!  Peace!   8)


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

Offline Sifu Terry McBride

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2003, 09:20:42 PM »
Hello all, this is my first post.  What a really great resource for the Kajukenbo family.
I am a female instructor, our school has just celebrated it's 1st anniversary.   :).

I go by Sifu in the dojo, out on the street it's either Terry or Sifu.  I chose Sifu over Simo as a show of respect to my Sifu, Joel Purvis, now Sigung.

Terry McBride
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Angels Camp, CA
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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Karazenpo

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2003, 04:55:48 AM »
Thank you, Sifu Terry, for your kind compliments and welcome to the "Family"!   Shihan Joe
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

Offline Mell

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2003, 07:09:19 PM »
This is the first time I have ever heard of the title Simo.  If using the feminine version of a title, is this the only one?  Does it replace all male titles or only Sifu?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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Karazenpo

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2003, 06:12:26 AM »
   When I studied Wah Lum Kung Fu we were given booklets about the system. In it were a list of Chinese titles for different levels of teaching abilities based on the family. Similar to sensei meaning "father". So, from what I recall there were several female titles. I still have the book, I'll just have to see if I can find it, it was almost 15 years ago. In the meantime, I believe Sigung Bishop can enlighten us better on this. I studied two Kung Fu styles, one northern & the other southern and both used male titles for everyone.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

Offline Mell

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2003, 05:30:16 PM »
In reference to the female title Simo - I have to ask, is the "mo" part pronounced with a short or long vowel sound?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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Offline Sifu Julian

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2003, 11:59:20 PM »
Mell,

The title Simo ("see-moo") changes the second character in Sifu from "father" to "mother" (although, not everyone uses the same second character for "fu"---one is used in Buddhism to refer to a monk and the other is a generic reference to any man or worker.)

To answer your second question about it changing all the titles; the short answer is yes---many people choose to insert the "mu" character into all the titles: (i.e. sigung to simugong, etc.)  I guess you could use "Simubak" but I have never heard that before.
But, being that we in KJKB are not strict in our uses of titles, I would not worry too much about which title you want to use---it is really up to you and your instructor as to which titles you choose.

FYI---Simo can also be used for "the wife of Sifu" whether she is ranked in martial arts or not (my JKD instructor refers to his wife as Simo and she has not trained as far as I know)

I hope that explaination helps and answers your questions.

Sifu Julian
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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Offline Sifu_George

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2003, 06:29:18 PM »
Hi everyone....
I'm a first time poster. Just wanted to say that I think this site is great! It gives me the opportunity to talk to more Kajukenbo Practitioners more often than those just in my local area.
I will definetly ask my wife the webmaster to link this site to my new website.   http://www.brioneskajukenbo.com
And if anyone needs any help with their website, please let her know. She is a professional and good at what she does. And she is now reminding me that she is also a student of mine.

As for the subject; out of respect for my Sifu, Sigung Tony Kattengell, I have been given the title of Sifu now that I am starting my own school. Which I am very proud to say that I am the first of Sigung Kattengell's students to do so. I just hope that I can become as successful and well respected by my students as he is by his.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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Offline GoldenLeopard

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Re: "Use of Titles"
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2003, 04:11:32 PM »
When I was part of Shaolin Kempo Karate, 5th degree black belts were called Master ____. The titles of Sensei or Shihan weren't used. Maybe it was a west coast thing.

When I joined the Karazenpo go Shinjutsu family under Sonny Gascon, he suggested using these titles: Prof., Sigung, Sifu, Sibak (from highest to lowest). That's what I use now...Sifu.

My students call my wife Simo. (she trains occasionally)
We call female instructors Sifu (based on the fact we call Sifu Bow Sim Mark sifu.)

As for Shihan, lots of styles use it for master. I was in one Japanese style that used it for "role models" -- students that supported the school who were not black belts. They didn't use Shihan to denote master.

Just adding my two cents,

Sifu Bry
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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