Author Topic: Your on your own  (Read 23867 times)

Offline John Bishop

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Your on your own
« on: January 09, 2008, 04:54:51 PM »
A good reason to seriously train in Kajukenbo.  Because in many cases your on your own. 

http://www.kutv.com/content/news/topnews/story.aspx?content_id=cec6ae98-4e6b-48fe-830a-69f2d23a48dc
« Last Edit: January 11, 2008, 12:18:50 PM by John Bishop »
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Offline NYKaju

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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2008, 05:43:28 PM »
Strange story. I can nearly guarantee there is more to the story considering we're only hearing her side of the event, where she is a helpless surprised victim out of the blue.

But regardless of the situation, if one person is being beaten on no matter the reason, someone should AT LEAST call the police....shameful.
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Offline Danjo

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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2008, 05:49:17 PM »
Now a days people are timid little sheep. When properly chanelled agression is beat out of our culture, the only ones that remain agressive are the sickos like that guy on the train attacking that woman. It was just a few year ago that "Let's roll!" was uttered by men on that flight on 9-11, but how many will do that in years to come if needed? No one on that train would have, that's for sure. When you refuse to do the right thing out of fear, then you're a coward. But that's what we're producing these days. By allowing our culture to take away our guns (remember when we used to play with cap-guns as kids?), tell us that there is no proper outlet for agression and ask us to always let the government handle things for us, we are turning into those people on the train. It's a Carthagenian Peace that we're accepting. I wonder how many of those people on the train filmed that beating on their cell phone cameras while they sat there and did nothing?
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Offline Danjo

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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2008, 05:53:07 PM »
Strange story. I can nearly guarantee there is more to the story considering we're only hearing her side of the event, where she is a helpless surprised victim out of the blue.


There IS no other side to that story! A woman was getting beaten by a man in public. I don't care what his motive was, he can explain it after he comes to from being knocked the F@#$ out by me! Certain lines you just don't cross!
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Offline NYKaju

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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2008, 06:07:25 PM »
Now a days people are timid little sheep. When properly chanelled agression is beat out of our culture, the only ones that remain agressive are the sickos like that guy on the train attacking that woman. It was just a few year ago that "Let's roll!" was uttered by men on that flight on 9-11, but how many will do that in years to come if needed? No one on that train would have, that's for sure. When you refuse to do the right thing out of fear, then you're a coward. But that's what we're producing these days. By allowing our culture to take away our guns (remember when we used to play with cap-guns as kids?), tell us that there is no proper outlet for agression and ask us to always let the government handle things for us, we are turning into those people on the train. It's a Carthagenian Peace that we're accepting. I wonder how many of those people on the train filmed that beating on their cell phone cameras while they sat there and did nothing?

Couldn't have said it better myself. Very well put


There IS no other side to that story! A woman was getting beaten by a man in public. I don't care what his motive was, he can explain it after he comes to from being knocked the F@#$ out by me! Certain lines you just don't cross!

Are you one of those people who watches a 30 second clip on the evening news, and then bases your political views and allegiances on what you just gleaned from it?

No there is another side to the story. Multiple sides actually. There is the assailants side. There is the bystanders sides. There is the drivers side (if he witnessed it). She, like most anyone, has painted herself as an innocent victim. A wholly innocent soul being victimized multiple ways in brutal fashion. The only account we have of the actual act of violence is her word only. Who is to say whether she is telling the truth, not to mention the WHOLE truth?

For all we know..
- she could have history with the man that hasn't been disclosed yet.
- this supposed savage beating could have been a slap in the face that she exaggerated, which would explain why no one did anything, as they probably didn't notice
- he could have intimidated her, or abused her verbally causing her to stumble to the ground on the train, and she has concocted the rest of the story to get her way
- she could have attempted to embarrass him publicly in response to his flirtations
- she could have hit him first for undisclosed reasons

There are countless things that we don't know, that surely she won't say if it paints her in a light any less than a saint. Does any of this excuse ANY intimidation or physical violence on behalf of the man, regardless of how great or minute? In my opinion, of course not. But it doesn't mean that this version of the event is the whole truth and whole story. To think otherwise is just naive.
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Offline Danjo

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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2008, 12:59:58 AM »


There IS no other side to that story! A woman was getting beaten by a man in public. I don't care what his motive was, he can explain it after he comes to from being knocked the F@#$ out by me! Certain lines you just don't cross!

Are you one of those people who watches a 30 second clip on the evening news, and then bases your political views and allegiances on what you just gleaned from it?

No there is another side to the story. Multiple sides actually. There is the assailants side. There is the bystanders sides. There is the drivers side (if he witnessed it). She, like most anyone, has painted herself as an innocent victim. A wholly innocent soul being victimized multiple ways in brutal fashion. The only account we have of the actual act of violence is her word only. Who is to say whether she is telling the truth, not to mention the WHOLE truth?

For all we know..
- she could have history with the man that hasn't been disclosed yet.
- this supposed savage beating could have been a slap in the face that she exaggerated, which would explain why no one did anything, as they probably didn't notice
- he could have intimidated her, or abused her verbally causing her to stumble to the ground on the train, and she has concocted the rest of the story to get her way
- she could have attempted to embarrass him publicly in response to his flirtations
- she could have hit him first for undisclosed reasons

There are countless things that we don't know, that surely she won't say if it paints her in a light any less than a saint. Does any of this excuse ANY intimidation or physical violence on behalf of the man, regardless of how great or minute? In my opinion, of course not. But it doesn't mean that this version of the event is the whole truth and whole story. To think otherwise is just naive.

Well, first off, I do not make up my mind about politics based on a clip. I use the eeny meeny miney moe method for that.

The guy was arrested and charged with multiple crimes so I doubt it was a slap and it was just her word for it.

As to the rest, the thing we are dealing with here is the public asault of a woman by a man amongst a crowd of people who did nothing. Whatever her relationship with this guy might have been is irrelevant as to whether he should have been allowed to get away with that. What he did was wrong and what the crowd did was wrong. No other side to it IMO.
"Rank Without Honor is Nothing."
Dan Weston
3rd Degree Black Belt under Prof. Bishop
FMAA
Don't tell me how much you honor Sijo, if you don't respect his wishes.

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2008, 02:15:34 PM »
Agree he needed his head cracked.......
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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2008, 02:46:57 PM »
I agree with both of you. my wife is always on my case for trying to give a helpping hand >:( I guess this is the former Marine in me. A few months ago on 20/20 they show how most people will not help out some one they do not know. Thank GOD there are a few good people who will step up to the plate and help out victims. 8)

Offline rockatear

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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2008, 02:54:34 PM »
Now a days people are timid little sheep. When properly chanelled agression is beat out of our culture, the only ones that remain agressive are the sickos like that guy on the train attacking that woman. It was just a few year ago that "Let's roll!" was uttered by men on that flight on 9-11, but how many will do that in years to come if needed? No one on that train would have, that's for sure. When you refuse to do the right thing out of fear, then you're a coward. But that's what we're producing these days. By allowing our culture to take away our guns (remember when we used to play with cap-guns as kids?), tell us that there is no proper outlet for agression and ask us to always let the government handle things for us, we are turning into those people on the train. It's a Carthagenian Peace that we're accepting. I wonder how many of those people on the train filmed that beating on their cell phone cameras while they sat there and did nothing?

Couldn't have said it better myself. Very well put


There IS no other side to that story! A woman was getting beaten by a man in public. I don't care what his motive was, he can explain it after he comes to from being knocked the F@#$ out by me! Certain lines you just don't cross!

Are you one of those people who watches a 30 second clip on the evening news, and then bases your political views and allegiances on what you just gleaned from it?

No there is another side to the story. Multiple sides actually. There is the assailants side. There is the bystanders sides. There is the drivers side (if he witnessed it). She, like most anyone, has painted herself as an innocent victim. A wholly innocent soul being victimized multiple ways in brutal fashion. The only account we have of the actual act of violence is her word only. Who is to say whether she is telling the truth, not to mention the WHOLE truth?

For all we know..
- she could have history with the man that hasn't been disclosed yet.
- this supposed savage beating could have been a slap in the face that she exaggerated, which would explain why no one did anything, as they probably didn't notice
- he could have intimidated her, or abused her verbally causing her to stumble to the ground on the train, and she has concocted the rest of the story to get her way
- she could have attempted to embarrass him publicly in response to his flirtations
- she could have hit him first for undisclosed reasons

There are countless things that we don't know, that surely she won't say if it paints her in a light any less than a saint. Does any of this excuse ANY intimidation or physical violence on behalf of the man, regardless of how great or minute? In my opinion, of course not. But it doesn't mean that this version of the event is the whole truth and whole story. To think otherwise is just naive.

Ah, Sensei James,

You remember the Genovese case out of your neck of the woods?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Kitty Genovese

Kitty Genovese, picture from The New York Times article: "Thirty-Eight Who Saw Murder Didn't Call the Police"
Born Catherine Susan Genovese
July 7, 1935(1935-07-07)
Brooklyn[1], New York, U.S.A.
Died March 13, 1964 (aged 28)
Kew Gardens, New York[2], U.S.A.
 
Resting place Lakeview Cemetery
New Canaan, Connecticut
41¬?08′34″N 73¬?29′01″W / 41.14278, -73.48361
Catherine Susan Genovese (July 7, 1935[1] — March 13, 1964), commonly known as Kitty Genovese, was a New York City woman who was stabbed to death near her home in the Kew Gardens section of Queens, New York.[3] The circumstances of her murder and the apparent reaction of her neighbors were reported by a newspaper article published two weeks later and prompted investigation into the psychological phenomenon that became known as the bystander effect or "Genovese syndrome."[4]

For more information one can go to:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese


Actually there were not 38 witnesses, but nonetheless there witnesses enough and safe in their apartments to have called the police and I think only 2 called. But I remember this from living in NJ at the time and hearing she'd been stabbed 14 times.

We continue to have the bystander effect and I think it's getting worse.  

I couldn't agree more that it doesn't matter what the reasons were for this man hitting and beating on this woman; somebody should've assisted her. As a young woman, when I traveled cross-country on Greyhound, I made it my business to sit next to older and elderly women who looked liked they didn't take crap from anybody and believe me it came in handy at a 3am stop in St. Louis, Missouri.

It scares me that so many adult men and women are afraid to even call the police-- they could've gotten up and looked for train security. It is alarming. Professor Bishop is right...many cases we're on our own.

with respect,

Shirley Phelps, blue blelt, Hand to Hand Kajukenbo Self-Defense Center, Oakland, CA, www.handtohandkajukenbo.com, Gaylord Method, Chief Head Instructors:  Sifus Jen Resnick and Sonya Richardson

Offline onephatboydave

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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2008, 03:12:40 PM »
I was always told there are three sides to every story, his, hers, and the truth.  Somewhere in both stories lies the truth.

Being in Law Enforcement one of the things especialy hear in California is that they tell people not to get involved and be a good wittness. Granted someone should have at least called the conductor and reported the incident while it was happening.  I don't agree that all people are scared to act, I think more scared of getting sued because of the action they take.  Even in Law Enforcement you are always second guessed for the actions you take and the reason why is so the city will not get sued.

On of the deadliest calls for Law Enforcement is the call for Domestic Violence.  There are a number of officers who have lost there lives attempting to stop the husband from killing his wife only to be shot by the wife for arresting her husband.

I think there is a different way people with some kind of Martial Arts background or military background think, and that would be to react to do something and not think about being sued.

The average person I think does think about being sued and about getting killed.

It is sad that we have to question what will happen to me if I do the right thing.

 
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Offline raymo76

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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2008, 03:33:37 PM »
It is sad that we have to question what will happen to me if I do the right thing.

So very true
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Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2008, 08:38:06 PM »
Aloha Ohana  :)

I must say that I have learned to take a stand. I have faith that all of us who looked at this article would have attempted to neutralize the situation in an appropriate manner (who knows what this would be). My first time in battle and combat was over as quicly as it started it seemed but I assure you that our training is what kicked in and carried the day for us. From that first battle and day the rest was an accumulative effect of doing what is right versus what isn't right - the rest seemed at times to be left up to the hand of fate and Murphy's Law as the days turned to weeks and weeks to months. We were always prepared and I believe that we as Kaju Warriors must also be prepared. It is a violent world that we live in and we must be prepared to brush or engage with this violence at some point in time. This is what we train for in many ways at the core of it all.

Overall,  this is what we have to be prepared for each and everyone of us and when the time really comes to deliver the survival skills needed we have faith that our humility and preparedness and experience will see us through. I believe that the majority of  people out there are trully emotionally, mentally, physically and spiritually unprepared for the prospect of lethal combat in any areana and just the small glimpse at this story of the lady and no one helping her shows that most people are not prepared to combat the violence they may be faced with. Although we do not know the whole story it is obvious that courage is a valuable comodity to have in the world of survival. I thank God that I have grown to possess this trait.

Respectfully,

Sifu Pat "Kapono" Campbell
Chief Instructor/5th Degree

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Offline NYKaju

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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2008, 11:09:17 PM »
Well I know now that I would'nt want NYKaju watching my back from his post he's more than likely just to stand by and do nothing.

Reading comprehension much?
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Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2008, 03:36:32 AM »
There IS no other side to that story! A woman was getting beaten by a man in public. I don't care what his motive was, he can explain it after he comes to from being knocked the F@#$ out by me! Certain lines you just don't cross!

An example of the other side of the story is that there were no other people on the train.  What numbers were mentioned in the story? 10? 15? More than a dozen ?  Maybe the real number is zero.  Perhaps a few women, all of whom are conditioned that only men, even those with families, do the brave sorts of things such a risk their life to help a stranger in return for a perhaps a few words of thanks.  Other examples of the the other side of the story include that the man attacked her in a few seconds and left the train promptly or that her pimp beat her up near the train, so she boarded without a ticket to escape and came up with the idea for fat cash from a lawsuit against a corporation.  The readers assume the woman is telling the truth that a stranger beat her up for little reason even though the article is careful to cite the details along with phrases such as "A woman says she was ..." and "the woman claims ..." "According to the woman ..."  It may not have even been a real story.  If the victim were a man, we probably would never have read about it due to its lack of newsworthiness.

That said, I'll side with the woman's story and say that I would probably "step up" in such a situation.  If I'm on a plane with terrorists, there is no way I'm crying in my seat while the machine goes down.

'm


 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 03:42:53 AM by Gints Klimanis »
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Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: Your on your own
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2008, 08:58:48 AM »
Aloha, sir  :)

I had the misforune to drive a cab for about a year here in Columbus GA. One early morning in the bar district on Broadway I was waiting for the bars to close down so I could cart some fares bact to post (Ft Benning) when from one of the bar outsides comes a commotion involving one person against several. Words were exchanged and they moved towards the mall that lined the center of the two roads that ran next to all of the bars. I noticed and could see they were heated as they moved opposite of where I was parked. Sudden;y the noise got louder and I realized they were fighting. It was five against one and when I got my eyes on them I noticed the one one the ground getting his asp stomped by all of them. I didn't know him the others or the situation but I assure you thet the next thing I noticed I had ran froim my cab leaving the cab door open, dropped my cell phone and was suddenly in the middle of them all. Somehow, allthough I can't recall how, I had cleared the assialants off of the grounded victim and was shielding him from their assaults. By the time I was ready to get my share of their assault, bouncers from several other bars ran out to assist and quell the violence. The kid on the ground was beat up pretty good in just the few seconds he received the pummelling.

My point is that in the forum we have the luxury of debate but in the street there is none. I never thought twice about assisting I just responded to someone getting hurt. The guy went to the hospital and the assialants went to jail and the bouncers and police said that I probably saved him allot of damage. I got home later that morning and realized that there had been no thought process on my part. Someone was in peril and I helped. It's that simple. For all I know the kid deserved an asp whooping - not by 5 and not to the point of severe physical harm.

I was fortunate thath morning and so was he. It all worked out. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

Mahalo,

Sifu Pat "Kapono" Campbell
Chief Instructor/5th Degree

There IS no other side to that story! A woman was getting beaten by a man in public. I don't care what his motive was, he can explain it after he comes to from being knocked the F@#$ out by me! Certain lines you just don't cross!

An example of the other side of the story is that there were no other people on the train.  What numbers were mentioned in the story? 10? 15? More than a dozen ?  Maybe the real number is zero.  Perhaps a few women, all of whom are conditioned that only men, even those with families, do the brave sorts of things such a risk their life to help a stranger in return for a perhaps a few words of thanks.  Other examples of the the other side of the story include that the man attacked her in a few seconds and left the train promptly or that her pimp beat her up near the train, so she boarded without a ticket to escape and came up with the idea for fat cash from a lawsuit against a corporation.  The readers assume the woman is telling the truth that a stranger beat her up for little reason even though the article is careful to cite the details along with phrases such as "A woman says she was ..." and "the woman claims ..." "According to the woman ..."  It may not have even been a real story.  If the victim were a man, we probably would never have read about it due to its lack of newsworthiness.

That said, I'll side with the woman's story and say that I would probably "step up" in such a situation.  If I'm on a plane with terrorists, there is no way I'm crying in my seat while the machine goes down.

'm


 

Patrick "Kaponookalani" Campbell, Ph.D.
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