blending styles

[William]

hello,

This is my first time posting on this website, but with all this good info. being shared it was time to get started .

What value  do you give to american boxing as far as usefullness in street and  in kajukenbo.


                                                               William

[John Bishop]

I think it already is a important part of the "Original Method" of Kajukenbo.  
Many of the counters and alphabets were practiced against the punching style of boxers, instead of the typical step thru lunge punch to the chest that many of the more traditional arts use.  
Most of the early Kajukenbo people were trained in western boxing.  
Like the mainland getto and barrio kids, the kids of the Palama District saw boxing as a possible way to escape the poverty of the area.  Sijo trained in boxing.  Marino Tiwanak and Peter Choo were champion boxers.  And I'm sure many of the other early Kajukenbo practitioners were involved in boxing.  

[William]

if any, what would deem to be the differences of american boxing and chinese boxing. or discribe
chinese boxing.



                                         thankyou ,
                                                          william

[John Bishop]

Perhaps someone with more experience in the Chinese arts could expound on this.  
It has always been my understanding that all kung fu styles were refered to by the Chinese as "Boxing", since "Kung Fu" is a general term that means "acquired skill".  

[sigungjoe]

In the Fi Kuen part of Kajukenbo, American boxing is also incorporated into the techniques. Grand Master Sotelo was a championship boxer back in the day. 13-0 with 13 knockouts before he had to stop and fulfill his fathers wishes of finishing dental school. So, the rapid fire hands has basic boxing principles. One of the things that changed though is that in American style boxing, there are rules as to how to throw and hit. Sort of like staying within boundaries. In Kajukenbo, the rapid fire can still be started with a basic boxing combination. But, because we are taught to fight outside the box, elbows, chops, backfists, eye rakes, hammer fists, dead palms, and multiple same hand strikes can be combined, along with flowing circular or straight whiping hands. Remember that American boxing is a sport and has rules, so if you fancy yourself a boxer, and you get into a fight in the streets, you will be hindering yourself by fighting with those rules.

[Gints Klimanis]

William,

Here's an interesting article comparing "Pro" and "Street" fighters written by champion karateka Joe Lewis.  It doesn't directly answer your question about boxing, but it's somewhat relevant.

http://www.realfighting.com/0102/joelewis.htm

Gints

[Serene]

Sigung Bishop: I would agree that I was told that chinese boxing was another name for "Kung Fu".

Sorry Sigung Joe got to take the other side of the coin, but Boxing is not a sport.  

It's a style of fighting. My grandfather, dad and brothers have whipped many of people in their days with their boxing skills in the ring and on the streets of Hawaii, Samoa and U.S..  

My oppinion. Boxers are fighters. Kajukenbo is self-defense.

Sigung now I agree with you 100% boxing and Kajukenbo mix are deadly to the attacker. Great match!

I enjoy both. I believe that my boxing blood and now my Kajukenbo blood blend very well together.  

My best to you, students and GM Sotelo. Hopefully, will be able to get together soon.  



Soifua,

[Mell]

I agree with Sigung Bishop.  Boxing teaches us to be light on our feet and to work in combination, unlike other karate styles that teach one block/one strike techniques with no movement.  

[Brandi Ross]

We don't get to do it as often as we would like, but one of our instructors cross trains in boxing.  He has brought some of those drills with him, especially footwork and combos.  It allows for a break from traditional style and gives new meaning to movement.  I know that it has helped me as far as moving goes.  I've seen improvements in foot and hand speed.  That is only lately have I noticed this.  I think it has an important part in what we do.  Everything we learn is to survive and protect those whom we love.

Brandi

[Greg Harper]

 
Serene
am i reading correct?
Kajukenbo is self defense???
when the co founders created Kajukenbo it was to destroy the enemy.
when i am asked if i teach self defense i say no i teach offense.
the way i learned Kajukenbo was to attack your enemy untill they are no longer moving
we always train in the mix,
it is the only way to be ready for anything.
boxing is normaly the first thing we work on here, then trapping / knife / stick / hand & foot technique / ground fighting / and what ever els comes up. (Kajukenbo)
so to the original question yes boxing is very important as a starting point.
and yes boxer's are fighter's just like Karate people are fighters.
but most compete in a sporting environrment.
keeps you out of jail
i think if you do not use boxing you are in trouble.
 
Greg Harper

[sigungjoe]

Serene, now dont get me wrong, boxing is a great additive to kaju. But it still has certain rules to it. Im pretty sure that your family used some boxing techniques in their brawls on the street, but Im sure that they also used kicks, elbows, ect. Like it was stated earlier on one of the posts, boxing developes good footwork, hand eye coordination, and some theory to fighting. all I meant was that if you do "just boxing" in a street fight, then your not using your total arsenal. and besides, when you add in the eye rakes, chops, kicks, grappling, elbows, ect. doesnt that change it from boxing to kaju?
just my humble oppinion.
joseph

[Serene]

Good one Professor. I was waiting for someone to catch that comment.   I knew I was going to have to elaborate.    

You know what I mean. Kaju is self-defense the bust up kind not just defending.  

Intially we are trained to defend ourselves against weapons, grabs, punches and etc. against the attacker. However, once the fight/fun begins we are trained to seek, attack and destroy.  

The boxing and Kajukenbo are a great mixture. The conditioning is well worth it as the different techniques that blend very well with Kajukenbo. As we all know in the begining the Kajukenbo techniques were to defend against the boxers.

Hitting the mitts are great for speed, hand/eye coordination and builds endurance. The footwork drills keep me on my toes and not flat footed. It also teaches me to pivot more and not to cross my legs. Hitting the heavy bag builds is great for body shots and when I feel like brawling. The speed bag is great for head movements and timing. The running is great it keeps your heart pumping and builds endurance.  

The mitt drills we do are called reaction. The punch comes to me and I block it than I counter it with a combo.  

My main reason of boxing is not just to be a boxer but as you can see its just fun and its in my blood.  

Truly I found that it contributes to my Kajukenbo training even more. It has made it more fun than ever.    

Soifua,
 

[Serene]

Sigung Joe:

Now, you know and I believe in Kajukenbo to the fullest hands down.

But I get this feeling that we are not giving props to our fellow boxers who are also good fighters. Yes, they may not gauge eyes, bite, kick but what they do damage other ways.  

They have multiple combos that can take a person out just as fast and painful as we can. Boxers have fast hands and are a different kind of style of fighting.

I can't believe that we are saying that great fighters such as Muhammed Ali, Oscar De Lahoya, Sugar Ray, Mosley, Foreman, Frazier and all these people would suck as fighters on the street because they are just boxers?  I don't think so gentlemen.  

Like I said before boxing and Kaju mesh well together. But lets give proper respect to the boxers too.  

Boxing works on the streets, Kaju works on the streets and both work well together.  

My dad, grandfather and brothers did not kick or gauge eyes. They didn't have to becuase they usually knocked the person out with a left hook/right hook/upper cut or a body shot.  

Okay Sigung and Professor your turn.  

Soifua,
 

[sigungjoe]

Your right Serene, we have to give boxers props, and yes there are boxers out there that can drop people with just punches, but what happens when a boxer meets an attacker that has a knife, or a stick? or is a foot taller and much larger? or what even if the attacker is one of those boxers that you just mentioned? Can they just use boxing as a means of self defense?
Just stirring up the pot.
Tag your it!
Joseph

[Greg Harper]

 
I don't think this direction is what the question was asking.
1st of all no one is saying boxer's are not fighters.
you are the one who made the comparison.
2nd of all most street fight's are not fair & normally are between 2 untrained fighters.
if one is trained either in karate or boxing he will do well
against an untrained fighter.
but if you are saying a boxer will stand up against a martial artist then what happened in the first few UFC  match's.
1 boxer & he went down fast.
if i am wrong then why are they not kicking butt in no holds bared fighting.
boxing is a good art but it is not complete.
and in my opinion most that train will NOT do well in the street against a seasoned (STREET) fighter who is just dog dirty mean.
i have seen it first hand.
most people that train do not know what it means to dig down when you are hurt & in pain & out of gas.
you see the term no fear all over the place, when i see that i think oh really!
how many times in the dojo do you see people turn away when they get hit no matter how good thier technique is. in the street they will go down.
they do not like getting hit.
Sijo say's make pain your friend.
so was the question about street fighting or adding boxing to your style
no one is saying boxing is not a good art,
it is part of our system. (part)
but since it is not complete we have KAJUKENBO.
as far as my father he was a little man.
5'7 about 150 lbs
but was well known by his friends as the meanest little
s--t in town.
he had no training and knocked out his share. also he was the first one to get it on no matter the size or number's. (NO FEAR) a must in street fighting
and the first thing i learned about fighting.
now sport is a whole different ball game, it is where we test our skill with out going to jail.
im done here, good luck
 
Greg Harper