Author Topic: Promotions and GM requirements  (Read 5050 times)

Offline Wado

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Promotions and GM requirements
« on: February 01, 2008, 11:55:34 AM »
Quote from: Danjo
Like was said above: No joke, just a clarifying question which has been answered. (Not everything I say is sarcastic. At least not on the Cafe')

Yeah, I now see that. I thought you were referencing something else. My bad.

It can be easy to be confused about ranks without something like a family tree for reference.  Kenpo Karate was the original name of Kajukenbo before it was called Kajukenbo.  C.H.A. 3 Kenpo Karate is more like a brother to Kajukenbo than a cousin.  Of course we all are Ohana.

So if you mean Kajukenbo Ohana then that can include all brothers and sisters on the family tree, IMHO.  However, if you mean Kajukenbo as in Kajukenbo and its branches then that is a smaller portion of the family tree.

Many on the family tree also are not training only under one grandmaster but instead are under more than one.  Therefore they may have different ranks under different sections of the family tree.  It is just one of those things that can happen when they train hard for 40 or more years that they come to study under many instructors.
W. Yamauchi
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Seattle, Washington

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Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2008, 12:22:46 PM »
So I am confused.  Is CHA3 not Kajukenbo I was also looking and there is a thing called Knekabo by Asuncion and he is on the family tree and is over a lot of people is he not Kajukenbo too?  I still don't know what makes a grandmaster one.  What techniques are they supposed to know for that rank?  No I don't expect to ever get there.  Just want toi know.

Offline Wado

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Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2008, 01:07:12 PM »
So I am confused.  Is CHA3 not Kajukenbo I was also looking and there is a thing called Knekabo by Asuncion and he is on the family tree and is over a lot of people is he not Kajukenbo too?  I still don't know what makes a grandmaster one.  What techniques are they supposed to know for that rank?  No I don't expect to ever get there.  Just want toi know.

Look at this http://www.kajukenbocafe.com/smf/index.php?topic=3999.0 and hopefully it might help answer your questions.  If not this topic deserves its own thread as this thread is about announcing and congratulations.

C.H.A. 3 is not a branch (method) of Kajukenbo, it is a close brother.  It is Kajukenbo Ohana. 

Kenkabo is a branch under Kajukenbo.  It is like an offspring (son) of Kajukenbo.  It is Kajukenbo Ohana.

All that matters is that credit is given where credit is due.  If you look at the top of the family tree and you see Sijo and the co-founders there, that is Kajukenbo Ohana.  If you don't see Sijo there, but you do see Professor Chow... then that is not Kajukenbo Ohana but it is still extended family and Ohana.

As for criteria for Grandmaster, this is not a belt factory.  Each organization sets their own guidelines.  There is no way to just "EARN" being a grandmaster because you have met some requirement.  For KSDI, Sijo has set up a board to determine who will be promoted to 8th and 9th degree (with Sijo has final say, his decision is final and supersedes the board).

I only speak for my own observations and I could be wrong... anyone feel free to correct me.
W. Yamauchi
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Seattle, Washington

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Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2008, 03:38:50 PM »
Thank you for letting me no.  I think I understand a little better.  Sorry to change the thread but I was curious.  Kenkabo and CHA3 are Kajukenbo Ohana but not Kajukenbo.  Also, I am still not sure about what makes a grand master?  Does ti depend on what branch that gets you the rank?  Dan was telling me that Al Reyes called his Kenpo Karate.  Is that different than Kajukenbo or is that Kajukenbo Ohana too?

Offline John Bishop

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Re: Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2008, 04:11:54 PM »
Thank you for letting me no.  I think I understand a little better.  Sorry to change the thread but I was curious.  Kenkabo and CHA3 are Kajukenbo Ohana but not Kajukenbo.  Also, I am still not sure about what makes a grand master?  Does ti depend on what branch that gets you the rank?  Dan was telling me that Al Reyes called his Kenpo Karate.  Is that different than Kajukenbo or is that Kajukenbo Ohana too?

The original school that Sijo had at Halawa Housing and later Palama Settlement was still a branch school of Prof. Chow's until the late 50's.  So although Sijo was teaching his own method (Kajukenbo), the school was referred to as a "kenpo karate" school. 
Instructors who teach this original method, used names like "Kajukenbo Kenpo Karate", "Kajukenbo Original Method", "Kajukenbo Original Hard Style", to distinguish them from the "Chuan Fa", "Tum Pai", and "Wun Hop Kuen Do" branches.  These are the 4 accepted styles of Kajukenbo.
Marino Tiwanak eventually broke away from Kajukenbo and his own style took on the name of the schools location "CHA-3 (Central Housing Area, building 3)" kenpo.  He received his subsequent promotions in kenpo from Prof. Chow.
The followers of GM Asuncion keep the "Kenkabo (Kenpo, Karate, Boxing)", and Kajukenbo ranks separate.  Kenkabo being GM Asuncion's personal system, and Kajukenbo being Sijo's system.  It's not uncommon for instructors to teach more then one system, and be ranked in more then one system.       
   
 
 
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

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Re: Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2008, 04:27:57 PM »
I think I see now.  So the 4 branches you must be from in order to be called Kajukenbo? 

Offline John Bishop

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Re: Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2008, 05:16:04 PM »
I think I see now.  So the 4 branches you must be from in order to be called Kajukenbo? 

Since those are the only accepted (by Sijo) branches, then yes.  Of course within these branches are various "methods", such as the "Ramos Method", and "Gaylord Method".

What is on the "Kajukenbo Family Tree" is all persons/systems who can trace their roots to Sijo Emperado. 
It is the nature of the martial arts for some groups to evolve into distinct and separate arts.  This has happened through out the history of martial arts. 
A few major examples would be "judo", "shotokan", "aikido", "wado ryu", and many versions of "kenpo".  "Judo" evolved from "jujitsu", but judo practitioners do not consider themselves "jujitsu" practitioners.  "Shotokan" evolved from "shorin ryu" and "shorei ryu", but shotokan stylists do not consider themselves to be shorin ryu or shorei ryus stylists.  And it is this way with just about all arts that have evolved into separate arts. 
There are many arts represented on the Kajukenbo Family tree that are now separate and distinct arts.  Arts such as CHA-3 kenpo, Nick Cerio's kenpo, Shaolin Kenpo, Karazenpo Goshin Jutsu, Ken-Ka Kung Fu, and many others do not consider themselves to be Kajukenbo or branches of Kajukenbo. 
Martial artist are big on history and lineages.  Many that are not "Kajukenbo", use the Kajukenbo Family tree to historically trace the roots and development of their present art.             
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

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Re: Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2008, 05:22:42 PM »
I swa recently the terms Fi Kuen , Advanced Method, and Emperado True method.  What branches would those fall under?  Also, could you expand on the family tree a bit more.  My copy has a group that are under Sijo that are to the right side on the tree and that group includes Dan and others are all of them Kajukenbo or is that like you said for the tracing roots part?

Offline Serene

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Re: Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2008, 05:39:03 PM »
I would say yes.

If you can't prove your lineage to Sijo than your not Kajukenbo.


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Offline Wado

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Re: Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2008, 05:42:53 PM »
Thank you for all the great posts Professor Bishop.

IMHO, when someone says they are Kajukenbo, I am thinking that means that they have Kajukenbo in their roots, that they are part of the Kajukenbo Ohana. 

------------------------------

However, Kili, for what you are asking has more to do with claiming rank in Kajukenbo.  The rank that one receives is the rank from who grants it to them.  I for instance hold rank under two separate methods of Kajukenbo family tree, as well as my instructor having been taught by Frank Suan in C.H.A. 3 Kenpo Karate.

One method I have rank in is under the K.A.A., Gaylord Method.  Although I have rank and still love to teach Gaylord Method techniques because I really find them good and have a lot of respect for them and those that train it... when I am to give rank out, I have no right to give rank in K.A.A. or Gaylord Method because what I teach is different.  I hold my highest rank under KSDI, Sigung Frank Mateo, Professor Jerry Scott, Grandmaster Edmund Louis.  This is the organization that I teach under.  In the same regard, I have other ranks in other systems, I'm a black belt in Okinawan Goju-ryu but I'm not giving out any rank to anyone in that.

Who is Kajukenbo?  Look at your rank certificate, look at all who have granted that rank to you and what it says on that certificate.  That is who is your lineage.  Go to those that signed your rank certificate and ask them what you are... they can give you the honest answers.

IMHO.

W. Yamauchi
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Seattle, Washington

Offline John Bishop

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Re: Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2008, 05:48:07 PM »
I swa recently the terms Fi Kuen , Advanced Method, and Emperado True method.  What branches would those fall under?  Also, could you expand on the family tree a bit more.  My copy has a group that are under Sijo that are to the right side on the tree and that group includes Dan and others are all of them Kajukenbo or is that like you said for the tracing roots part?

"Fi Kuen" would be GM Sotelo's method, which is under the "Original (kenpo) Method" (pre-WHKD). 
"Advanced Method" would be GM Cherry Ortega's method, which is also under the "Original (kenpo) Method". 
"Emperado True Method" I believe would also come down from the O.H.S.

I'm sure GM Gelinas could expand on the tree more, but my understanding is that the people on the right side of the tree are presently directly under Sijo due to; either their leaving their original instructors, their instructors becoming inactive or dying, or Sijo has brought them into Kajukenbo.   
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
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K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

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Re: Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2008, 05:56:56 PM »
I would say yes.

If you can't prove your lineage to Sijo than your not Kajukenbo.




Do the other founders have the right to use the Kajukenbo name?  Would their students also be Kajukenbo?

Wado:  I asked Dan a few weeks ago and that is why I have all these questions.  He said that we are Kaju cause Sijo said we are Kaju.  I asked him what branch and he said "the broken one."  He likes to joke while he is hitting us. 

Offline Wado

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Re: Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2008, 06:38:56 PM »
I would say yes.

If you can't prove your lineage to Sijo than your not Kajukenbo.




Do the other founders have the right to use the Kajukenbo name?  Would their students also be Kajukenbo?

Wado:  I asked Dan a few weeks ago and that is why I have all these questions.  He said that we are Kaju cause Sijo said we are Kaju.  I asked him what branch and he said "the broken one."  He likes to joke while he is hitting us. 

I think Sigung Dan gave you is a great and honest answer... as well as being witty.

Your questions are complex.  It isn't simply a question of who has the right to the Kajukenbo name.  Sijo and the co-founders created Kajukenbo, they have a long history with each other.  They are Kajukenbo no matter what name they choose to call it.  They defined what is Kajukenbo... it isn't a name it is what they developed through sincere, hard training... blood and sweat.  What is a name to them?  It isn't the name it is the blood and sweat that is what it is.

Now every generation that followed is a bit different.  Is it still to be called Kajukenbo?  Does it matter?  What matters is paying respect to Sijo and all that came before, give credit where credit is due and not try to disrespect them by taking that away.  You train hard, you pay your dues, you respect those before, now, and in the future... that's Kajukenbo.

In the end though, only Sijo has the right to the name Kajukenbo... but what is it worth without hard and sincere training that made it what it is.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 10:14:32 PM by Wado »
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Offline NYKaju

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Re: Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2008, 06:53:38 PM »
Wow, thread broke off, and we get this? This has been a very informative thread for me. Thanks to all who've contributed, notably Wado and Professor Bishop.
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Offline NYKaju

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Re: Promotions and GM requirements
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2008, 06:55:27 PM »
Quote from: Eternal Beginner
Wado:  I asked Dan a few weeks ago and that is why I have all these questions.  He said that we are Kaju cause Sijo said we are Kaju.  I asked him what branch and he said "the broken one."  He likes to joke while he is hitting us. 

Nah, he's just the broken one :) lol
Sensei/Coach James Mayors
Ronin Martial Arts
Kajukenbo under Dan Tyrrell
BJJ under Matt Serra
Judo under Mark Staniszewski
"You don't rise to the level of your expectations, you fall to the level of your training"