Author Topic: Intro and question  (Read 4907 times)

Offline Vector_joe

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Intro and question
« on: February 11, 2008, 04:08:55 PM »
Hi all, just wanted to make a quick (well not so short) introduction and ask a question about curriculum.

I just started taking Tang Soo Do last month with my son who is 6 years old.  Previous to that, no MA experience for either of us.  TSD is offered through our park district at a very good price and I figured it was a way to see if my son would be interested in taking classes seriously.  I enjoy the TSD, but due to the facility limitations and such, I don't think we'll be doing too much in terms of actual sparring or anything else like that.  It's basically a good stretch and workout.  And the teacher seems to be a good guy.  But I don't think i'll stick with it long term.

I've been looking at Kajukenbo for a while now and there is a school in the next town.  Of all the research I've done on the web, it seems like the best and most suited to me.  In terms of preference based strictly on my knowledge of styles, it has come down to either Kajukenbo or Hapkido.  However, it seems like most of the Hapkido places around here are 1) way overpriced or 2) TKD schools that teach a bit of HKD or both. 

So I've had a couple of emails with the Kajukenbo teacher and it seems pretty promising.  I hope to visit his school a couple of times and then take a free class.  I asked him about the judo and jujutsu specifically because I was wondering how much of this he taught.  He admitted that throwing isn't his strong suit, but that his building also houses a judo/jujutsu club and he hopes they will do some cross training or something.  I haven't been able to find much information about this teacher, but his teacher is listed in the who's who section (Professor Andrew Torok http://www.kajukenbocafe.com/smf/index.php?topic=411.0)

So my question is:(http://www.empower-usa.com/golink.php?assetid=20 this is the link to his curriculum from adult white belt to 1st black.)  Does this seem to follow a standard Kajukenbo curriculum?  (I know that there is no standard, but does this seem to incorporate all the aspects you would expect to see in a Kajukenbo school?)

Sorry about the long post.
Joe Buan
Just started TSD... want to start KJKB.
Location:  Northeast Illinois

Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: Intro and question
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2008, 05:13:56 PM »
I won't touch this one for fear of offending someone. Are you sure this is Kaju? Maybe I looked at the wrong thing.

Sifu Pat
Patrick "Kaponookalani" Campbell, Ph.D.
KAJUKENBO - Professor Kai Li - ETS / HKA
Kenpo - SGM Rick Alemany 
DZR Jujitsu - ETS / AJI
BJJ - ETS / USFBJJ / Master Joe Moreira
Combat Sambo - ETS / GCA / GM Alan New 
JKD / Kun Tao - ETS / IMB / G. Savelli
Royal Hawaiian Lua - ETS PA / Olohe Eli

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Intro and question
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2008, 06:33:32 PM »
Seems to have other arts mixed in the bunch, I bet someone here knows him personally and give the scoop.....
..If he worked with Grandmaster Bautista you would guess he is good to go....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline Vector_joe

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Re: Intro and question
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2008, 06:54:24 PM »
Seems to have other arts mixed in the bunch, I bet someone here knows him personally and give the scoop.....
..If he worked with Grandmaster Bautista you would guess he is good to go....


I don't know if this guy that I talked to has ever worked with GM Bautista, but it appears that HIS teacher did.  The school I'm looking at is run by Tim Rochford.  From what I've heard, he seems like a good teacher, just wondering how it compares to other Kaju programs.
Joe Buan
Just started TSD... want to start KJKB.
Location:  Northeast Illinois

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Intro and question
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2008, 06:56:16 PM »
Oh sorry must have read it wrong.....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline Wado

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Re: Intro and question
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2008, 07:36:03 PM »
So my question is:(http://www.empower-usa.com/golink.php?assetid=20 this is the link to his curriculum from adult white belt to 1st black.)  Does this seem to follow a standard Kajukenbo curriculum?  (I know that there is no standard, but does this seem to incorporate all the aspects you would expect to see in a Kajukenbo school?)

Some of the things that caught my attention about the curriculum were:

- Corkscrew punch:  YES!!!!  :)

- Pinan I-V & Saifa & Karumpha & Gake Sei... Some Kajukenbo schools don't teach forms, I think most do.  However, the Kajukenbo Pinans (a.k.a. Palama Sets) 1-14 are unique to Kajukenbo... except for Pinan 11.  Anyway, if you are going to be learning forms, probably should learn some of the Kajukenbo forms.  Pinan I-IV I think might be the Pinan Shodan - Godan from Karate, and Saifa Karumpha & Gake Sei are definitely karate forms. 

The curriculum definitely has a heavy influence in karate.  Karate is part of Kajukenbo so that works for me.  The rest is too hard to tell without seeing it first hand in training.  Just by looking at the curriculum I cannot tell if it is Kajukenbo or not... but like I said, the forms/kata are not Kajukenbo.
W. Yamauchi
Mateo Kajukenbo
Seattle, Washington

Offline John Bishop

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Re: Intro and question
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2008, 07:54:00 PM »
Tim is a member here.  And we've had discussions here about his "video training/ranking courses".  He's stated in the past that his teachings are more closer to the "Kajukenpo" that he originally learned from Prof. Torok, before Torok started training in "Kajukenbo" under GM Bautista.  
"Kajukenpo" has more Japanese and Okinawan influences and techniques then "Kajukenbo".  That's why the heavy use of Japanese terminology and titles in the school handbook.  
People who know him say that he is a very good instructor, as is his instructor.  There are many methods of Kajukenbo, so you will see some variation from school to school.  Best thing to do is go watch some classes and see if your interested in what he's teaching.  
Hopefully, some of the members here may have some first hand knowledge of his classes to share with you.      
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline Vector_joe

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Re: Intro and question
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2008, 12:02:25 AM »
Tim is a member here.  And we've had discussions here about his "video training/ranking courses".  He's stated in the past that his teachings are more closer to the "Kajukenpo" that he originally learned from Prof. Torok, before Torok started training in "Kajukenbo" under GM Bautista. 
"Kajukenpo" has more Japanese and Okinawan influences and techniques then "Kajukenbo".  That's why the heavy use of Japanese terminology and titles in the school handbook. 
People who know him say that he is a very good instructor, as is his instructor.  There are many methods of Kajukenbo, so you will see some variation from school to school.  Best thing to do is go watch some classes and see if your interested in what he's teaching. 
Hopefully, some of the members here may have some first hand knowledge of his classes to share with you.       

Thanks Prof Bishop and all the rest.  That clears up some things.  I'm glad to hear good things and I plan on going to visit the school as soon as my schedule allows.  It sounds very promising.
Joe Buan
Just started TSD... want to start KJKB.
Location:  Northeast Illinois

Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: Intro and question
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2008, 09:01:53 AM »
Aloha, sir.

Good luck on your quest and I hope that everything turns out OK for you.

Sifu Pat
Patrick "Kaponookalani" Campbell, Ph.D.
KAJUKENBO - Professor Kai Li - ETS / HKA
Kenpo - SGM Rick Alemany 
DZR Jujitsu - ETS / AJI
BJJ - ETS / USFBJJ / Master Joe Moreira
Combat Sambo - ETS / GCA / GM Alan New 
JKD / Kun Tao - ETS / IMB / G. Savelli
Royal Hawaiian Lua - ETS PA / Olohe Eli

Offline John Bishop

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Re: Intro and question
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2008, 07:43:10 PM »
You may also want to see if these guys are still around your area:

School Name:        Marbutt`s Kajukenbo Karate
Chief Instructor:      Master Sean Marbutt
Asst. Instructors:      Mr. Jeremy Arguello
Location:      400 East 2nd Street
Genoa, IL  60135  USA
Phone #:      (815) 787-1018

Looks like he may be teaching here also:
http://www.genoaparks.com/adults.html
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

frank w.

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Re: Intro and question
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2008, 08:50:38 PM »
Greetings! One of the strong points AND weak points of Kajukenbo is that there are different "methods" around. I believe Sijo told people like Emil Bautista, Tony Ramos, Al dacascos and my (and Prof. Bono's) Great Grandmaster Gaylord to "go forth and develop Kajukenbo as you see fit, but do not forget your roots"...this is not a direct quote. At least I was told Sijo said something like that. Dr. Bono and I practice the Gaylord Method which is recognized by Sijo. (See the reference in John Bishop's book, starting on page 35. Also we Kaju guys have the luxury of bringing in other types of martial arts to the Kaju repertory. Dr. Bono does JKD grappling and western boxing and escrima among other things. My teacher stressed more of the Chinese arts, so I do the Shaolin staff, broadsword and also escrima. I really don't do any of the Okinawan weapons. I am currently studying Small Circle Jujitsu once a month at Wall Jay's Dojo in Alameda. Other "brothers" of mine in the Gaylord Method bring in other things as well. GGM Gaylord is not jealous, and has always encouraged us to get better, especially perfecting the Kaju techniques, but also explore! The BAD thing is that there is no one "standard" like some more traditional arts. Oh, well! If you find a Kajukenbo instructor who is humble, willing to pass down all he or she knows, and has an open mind and willing to learn even (or especially?) from a white belt, go for it! If you want to see Kajukenbo in action, watch the Discover Channel's program "Fight Quest" on Feb. 29th. GGM Gaylord and GM Greg Harper train Jimmy and Doug for the show. Dr. John, myself, GGMG, Prof. Ron Esteller, Prof. Tom Theofanoloulos and GM Joe Olivarez trained Jimmy in the Gaylord Method. So....welcome to the big Kajukenbo 'Ohana!   Prof. Frank Wohler
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 11:30:51 AM by KajuJKDFighter »