Author Topic: Question on Rank  (Read 25764 times)


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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2008, 02:48:20 PM »
Agreed Professor Bishop.

A lot of times when we become disillusioned by our choices in life, we try to erase our participation in it. In Kajukenbo we think by throwing out our badly or under-performing graduates that it will some how cleanse the situation. We should think of this before we promote them to black belt because once we do it, it cannot be revoked or altered because it had become history. I hear a lot of "They will change with the added responsibility" or "They we grow into the rank" as if it is a given reality that people will always change for the better when confronted with challenge. Unfortunately this is not always the case and actually quite rare in our society.

Bottom line, we have to take responsibility for our decisions to promote people. If things don't work out they won't always go away. So think long and hard about those border line students and see if they measure up to your standards before your seal goes on the paper. We can't do anything about the water that has gone over the dam, but there is still a lot of water in the reservoir.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 05:39:13 PM by sleddog »

Offline concordkajukenbo

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2009, 06:03:22 PM »
Couldn't agree with your post more!!!  I think the guys who have been around, training, teaching, running schools...WITHOUT any 5-15-20 years to go do whatever...deserve the highest levels of respect and consideration.  The others should always enjoy warm welcomes back into the training and teaching circles after their recesses.

The true blue solid steady guys...long-suffering...always there for decade after decade deserve A LOT more recognition and appreciation.  These are the guys that maintain and make this system awesome!  Without them, we might as well disappear.

I find it annoying when someone says...oh I've been a martial expert for 20 years...when in reality...they trained for two...left for 17 and have just come back...

Professor James his Concord School of Karate...has been at it since 1967...without ever stopping...not even for ONE month!   

How many can really say the same?  Well just watch a blackbelt work the Blackbelts move...and you will quickly see the Professors and the Posers...their movement confirms their levels of mastery and any lack thereof!

James is one of the most modest, humble guys I I beat the drum for him, because he is truly an awesome amazing man and martial artist...watching him move is like watching M. Jackson sing and dance.  Every muscle moves with a mindful masterful purpose...he is awesome, breathtaking and a pleasure to his strength, explosivenes, passion and power. 

I see his blackbelts developing the same artful power.  He ttells me his only wish is to pass along those traits and styles he learned from his direct instruction from Jim Nordlie and Kahuna Gaylord.

Davina: In Faithful Service

Concord School of Karate
established 1966 by Professor James Nordlie
Now under the Direction of Professor James Williams my most favorite Martial Arts Man in the entire Universe!!!


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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #62 on: September 03, 2009, 05:49:53 PM »
Since Grandmaster Bautista has not created his own method, but instead teaches the method taught to him by Ahgung Ramos, he is not a 10th degree. He is a 9th degree--the highest rank you can achieve without being the head of your own system. With that being said, the Ramos line should have a 10th degree in charge of it. That system is different from the original method, wun hop kuen do, and so forth and deserves an identified leader.
I do believe it's the right of the Ramos Family -Ramos Method, to give the respect to their orignator of the Ramos Method to Ahgung Tony Ramos, a 10th Degree.And just because Ahgung Ramos has passed doesn't require a 10th Degree to be present, Because he is there, In the form Leah,David,Anthony,Chris, Conrad,,and that is for all time and their sucessors to their school.
As the sucessor to Reyes Kenpo Karate in the school of Reyes Kenpo Karate. I will never be Higher than my teacher GGM Aleju Reyes, and none of the Reyes' Instructors, Down the Line.
Lineage of the Kajukenbo, or lineage of your school, is your only concern.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 07:07:08 PM by GM ALAN M.REYES »
SGM Alan M. Reyes
SrGrandMaster KSDI(2014)
GrandMaster KSDI(1999)
9th DegreeRed/SilverBelt KSDI(1986)
60Yrs.ContinuousTraining KSDI/ReyesKenpoKarate(2014)
FirstGenerationStudent/Successor-GGM Aleju C. Reyes-RKK CA(1959)
FirstGenerationStudent-GGM Sijo Adriano D. Emperado-Palama Settlement Hi(1954)

Offline thetao

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #63 on: October 11, 2012, 06:42:21 PM »
So what makes all those folks on the east coast that descended from Sonny Gascon any different.  We don't accept them because they haven't produced a world champ like Chuck Liddell?  Help me out with that one.

Sonny Gascon broke away from Kajukenbo and created his own system "Karazenpo Goshin Jutsu". 
His student, George Pesare, took what he learned from Gascon in 3 months of training, combined it with some judo and tae kwon do training and started his own kenpo system. 
His student, Nick Cerio, combined what Pesare taught him with some training from Bill Chun, William Chow, and Ed Parker, and created "Nick Cerio's Kenpo". 
His student, Fred Villari, took what he learned from Cerio, combined it with some mysterious training under unnamed Chinese masters, and created "Shaolin Kempo". 

In the Shaolin Kempo schools of Villari and some of his spawn, it's not uncommon to have 12 year old black belt instructors.  You can sign up for the "Black Belt College" and get your black belt in 12-18 months.  Most of the course is sales training, with a little physical training mixed in. 
But if you really don't want to spend money on gas and have to attend classes, you can get Villari's home video training course.  That way you can practice in the comfort of your living room in front of your T.V.  No hard workouts, no sparring, no injuries, unless you trip over the coffee table. 
And you get to video test every 6 weeks.  Of course they do recommend that once you get your brown belt, you wait 90 days before doing your video black belt test.   
The cirriculum itself has no resemblance to any of the Kajukenbo methods I've ever seen.  Their 5 Pinans are the Okinawan Pinans that Nick Cerio adopted from a Mas Oyama book.  Their other katas were either created by George Pesare, Nick Cerio, or Fred Villari.  Their "Kempo's" and "Combo's" are also their own creations.  Their training philosophies of little to no contact sparring, easy workouts so students don't quit, and quick and easy testing dosen't resemble any Kajukenbo schools I've ever encountered.   

I know this a very old topic but because I'm an infrequesnt visitor and I just saw it.

For whatever reason Mr. Bishop and Weston feel the need to routinely disrespect East Coast Kenpo with lies and half truths.

They always state their version of facts disregarding other peoples version of the truth, the problem with that is that neither Mr. Bishop or Weston were ever around to observe anything firsthand but only report what they were supposedly told second hand then swear its all true instead of talking to the people who were there.

Mr. Bishop routinely criticizes GM Pesare stating he only had 3 months of training and then got a BB in Tae Kwon Do, one time calling Mr. Pesare's system Tae Kwon Kempo or something of the sort.

The facts are that Pesare trained with Gascon and according to Gascon, who was there, Pesare became a black belt. The facts are that yes Mr. Pesare is a Tae Kwon Do BB but he is also a BB in Aikido, Escrima and Judo. All training he received after his Karazenpo training.

Mr. Cerio trained with Pesare, Chun, Chow and Parker receiving BB rankings from all of them not including Cerio's training in judo, jujitsu and kung fu.

Mr. Bishop routinely states that Cerio only trained for a matter of weeks yet Chow awarded Cerio his Shodan and years later a fifth degree in Chinese Kenpo. Again Cerio and Chow where there.

Chow even stated in his interview in Blackbelt magazine that Cerio was his student but in past postings Mr. Bishop and others have discounted Chow's own words as being false?

Maybe the matter should be taken up not with the people who recieved the Black Belt rankings like Pesare and Cerio but the people who awarded them ? Mr. Cerio was awarded Yudansha status by probably four of the five or six biggest names in Kenpo, all Grandmasters in their own right but that apparently isn't good enough for some, so be it.

Mr. Cerio's Pinions are adapted from Kyokushin Kai which were originally adapted from Okinawan karate and various variations are seen in most karate styles.

Cerio and Pesare didn't "make up" Katas 1-5. Katas 1-4 were created by Mr. Gascon and Mr. Godin, #5 and above were created by Mr. Pesare. Why not ask Mr. Gascon or Mr. Pesare they are both alive and they were actually there to witness what happened.

Mr. Bishop's staement that East Coast Kenpoist don't train hard or value contact is simply his opinion. Have you or Mr. Weston traveled or trained on the East Coast ? Ever fought anyone from the Pesare, Cerio or Villari lineage ? I'm sure the answer is no.
You make your statements based on opinions not first ahnd knowledge.

You have no idea what the training was or is like because you have never been personally involved, you take rumors, myths and your own uneducated opinions and state them as facts! If your problem is with the West Coast version under Mattera then you should take it up with them.

I find it interesting the constant need for "some" from Kajukenbo to disparage the East Coast Kenpo people when the opposite is true out here. We acknowldge Kajukenbo as a street wise, effective tough martial art and their students as same.

There appears to be a need to slam the East Coast as not worthy of a Kajukenbo lineage which is interesting because to my knowledge there are no Gascon-Pesare etc, schools that claim to be Kajukenbo instead they are Karazenpo, or SKK or whatever Kenpo variation their name may imply.

The East Coast Kenpo is a combined art using karate, kung fu, jujitsu and others similiar to the Kajukenbo concept but no one here is claiming to be Kajukenbo only that our styles descended from Kajukenbo via Mr. Gascon who is or was a Kajukenbo instructor, thats all.

So Mr. Bishop and Weston are right the East Coast versions are not Kajukenbo but no one out here ever said they were.

 We are whatever we are and according to some Mr. Pesare after only 3 months of training and Mr. Cerio with a mere 2 weeks were able to create a Martial Art and pass it on to others who have become accomplished fighters in and out of the ring, pretty good for a few months of instruction.

If those are the facts so be it but some people should stop spreading there own version of the truth and accept reality.

The reality is you are Kajukenbo, we are not and have never claimed to be.

Joseph Catanese
Kajukenbo -ETS method
Under Professor Kaiona Li
Chinese Kenpo kaju kai

Offline John Bishop

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #64 on: October 11, 2012, 07:42:32 PM »
Wow, talk about bringing a thread back from the dead.  I don't know who you are, your time in, or the amount of research you've done. 
I'll just say everything I've written about has come from those involved, not second, third, fourth hand.  I've got the letters and notes going back 30 years from people like Pesare, Gascon, Godin, Ryusaki, Chun, etc. 
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
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"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline thetao

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2012, 04:24:11 PM »

My info is available in my profile. I've been studying since 1975. Began teaching as a Brown belt in 1978 and continued teaching full time until 1981 when I changed careers to law enforcement.

Although I stopped working as a full time instructor I have continued to train and teach to this day.

My research is from my personal experiences and conversations and interviews or articles which cite the source of their information.

In the past you have stated that Pesare "made it all up", Pesare created "Tae Kwon Kempo" and that Cerio and Villari "made up" katas  so you must have the e-mails or transcripts of interviews available from Pesare, Cerio or whoever to cite your sources.

I'll cite two interviews; one with Chow where he states "Go see Nick Cerio, he is my Black Belt"

I know you have discounted Cerio's training with Chow but I am only going by Chow's own statements. He promoted Cerio and he says Cerio is his black belt so I'm not sure how anyone can discount what the Professa said.

In regards to Pesare "making it up" Pesare stated in a 2011 interview;

George: It?s all the same. What everybody?s trying to say well, you know. Whatever you?re taught, that?s what you?re taught. You can change it around, but you?re taught what you?re taught. That?s it, that?s the bottom line. I mean, I was taught from Victor and the other two guys. And, I changed some things around. I put some high kicks and stuff, but the majority is what I was trained to do.

The statement was in regards to his training and the development of his Kempo on the East Coast.

Here's is a complete transcript of the interview if your interested;

We on the East Coast do not denigrate Kajukenbo or any of its founders or current leaders. Whenever I see a post about East Coast Kenpo's relation to Kajukenbo it normally ends with an array of negative comments and put downs like the Tae Kwon Kempo remark which was taken exactly as you mean't it.

The loudest critics have never trained here and no nothing about it.

As I stated earlier no one that I know of on the East Coast who trained in the Pesare-Cerio-Villari lineage claim to be Kajukenbo only that our Kenpo descended from Kaju.

What I was trained in during the 1970's before SKK appears to have alot of similiarities to what I've seen online regarding Kajukenbo.

You have 26 alphabet techniques we had 26 punch defense combinations, you have punch counters we have Kenpo defensive punch techniques, both systems have grab escapes, knife, club and gun defenses and multiple man attacks. You use "Bull in the ring" we called it the Circle attack and so on.

I will agree with you the current SKK is a watered down shell of what it was for solely commercial reasons but that is not East Coast Kenpo.

I know from reading other posts others like Joe Shuras have detailed the fighters turned out by Pesare, Cerio and Villari including ;

Roger Carpenter,

Armon Garo New England heavyweight kickboxing champion 1978 to 1983

Thomas Ingargiola

There are others but I'm using these three gentleman as examples.

So my point is we do not speak negatively about Kajukenbo, we do not claim to be Kajuknebo jus a descendant, maybe an unwanted one but a distant realtive none the less.

Mr. Bishop I don't personally know you but I'm sure you and a host of others would take me to task if I said negative things or spread rumors about Sijo Emperado, I would expect it and the Kaju people who want to talk down about East Coast Kenpo should expect the same.

None of this is personal and I hope you don't take it that way.

Joseph Catanese
Kajukenbo -ETS method
Under Professor Kaiona Li
Chinese Kenpo kaju kai

Offline ghostman

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2012, 11:26:17 PM »
I would like to Thank You all for this thread!! It is one of the most inspiring threads I have read on here in a while! To those who Love Kaju, I would consider this a must read!!! Further, I would like to relate that, upon my initial visit to Prof. Goldade's school in Central Texas, he told me he respected my rank because he knows what a Kaju BB looks like when they come through the door! He has my respect & trust and, has ALWAYS treated me as O'Hana!!! At 14 yrs, I am a 3rd Degree & hope I haven't jumped or been raised up faster than one should! You guys, being my heroes in this deal, have given me renewed faith in what you are doing & what I am doing!!! Once again, Thank You for this gem!!!!!   
Lou Ivie
2nd Black Belt
KSDI of North Texas
Sigung Jesse Escobedo
Heart of Texas Kajukenbo

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #67 on: October 17, 2012, 05:45:20 PM »
Prof Dean is one of the good ones...
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline Dean Goldade

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #68 on: October 17, 2012, 08:16:07 PM »
Sifu Lou,
Any good Kaju guy can sort out what somebody knows after about 5 minutes on the mat... You are Kaju and I give you props and I will always have a open door at my house for you...

Prof Bono,
You know how I feel about you and our Gaylord Ohana... No need to say more.. I love you guys.

Prof Yoshii
Thank you for giving many of us a home, and for all your support when we wanted to explore, grow and find our way... You didn't block us, just helped us to remember to be careful and keep our eyes and minds open.

My BB's and students,
Thank you for inspiring me to give you all I have, and to keep seeking, so your well will never run dry. I am blessed and proud beyond words to be a part of the Kajukenbo Ohana!!....
Student of the arts