Author Topic: Question on Rank  (Read 26795 times)

Offline grand master hemenes

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2008, 04:12:31 PM »
kept im mind a belt just holds you pants up, a degree is just apeace of paper, a title is just a name, someone calls you. but really counts is how you do on the mat and the way you teach your students.
thats whats make you a good martial artist.


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sleddog

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2008, 04:33:21 PM »
I am sorry if my recounting of history is considered bad mouthing, but if I did it was to illuminate one glaring example of misdirected training.

Gypsy Rose Lee (well known stripper of a bygone age) once commented on a pompous chorus girl with this statement,

"She is descended from a long line that her mother listened to."

Sounds a little familiar.

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2008, 05:04:46 PM »
kept im mind a belt just holds you pants up, a degree is just apeace of paper, a title is just a name, someone calls you. but really counts is how you do on the mat and the way you teach your students.
thats whats make you a good martial artist.

People that already have the tokens can affored to dismiss them.  A belt, degree or title is usually bestowed upon you by someone that believes you are worthy of the distinction.   And I sense that you value your belt and rank as well.  Would your life be different if you never told anyone that you have them?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2008, 05:21:31 PM by Gints Klimanis »
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2008, 05:43:24 PM »
Some great points, many have rank and can not fight teach or even talk the game.  Many do not have rank and are great teachers or fighters, or just talkers.....

I respect the rank of others unless I have direct reason not to .....and that we'll I can't think of many of those...Yoshii let me expend our system and Gaylord did also, they both both encouraged it.  When Gi's were the norm we wore T's, and wrestling shoes...  I spent over 10 yrs hearing grappling sucks and doesn't work and no one can take them down
.....then people see the light........MMA is the name now.....I used to call it Hybrid, No Holds Barred, Vale Tudo....  some teachers entire being is getting their students better.  Some students just want the knowledge......some of both of those groups attain rank.....and that is great for them and validates that something is right..
 I figure if someone says some one is not good in the art they teach, you must have seen them teach and/of fight badly.....if not well them it is just hearsay ...

 For me is is great to hear opinions like on this thread of knowledgeable and respectful Martial artists....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2008, 05:48:10 PM »
Good Times!
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2008, 07:42:04 PM »
Several problems here. We can't always just listen to our teachers for our history. Some are not as informed as they could be.

This is a very important point.  My teacher Prof.  Richard Lewis would like to tell us more about the history.  However, he tells us that in his time, to ask questions is to doubt or challenge.  This seems remarkable to us currently raised in a culture of showing interest by asking questions, although there is still an element of the old way in us.
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

frank w.

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2008, 08:02:08 PM »
 EVERY martial art has its good points and not so good points. That's what Kajukenbo is trying to fix by not "staying inside the box". As far as rank...I always say: We never deserve the rank our teacher gives us. It is a reminder that we must work "into" that rank and BECOME that rank. That makes us (I hope) work harder to improve ourselves and your students.
 Sometimes I would just like to work without a belt, my students, too, and just come in and share what we all know. I have learned lots from Dr. Bono, Ron Esteller, Tom Theofanopoulos and others in Gaylord's Method. Oh, and from other teachers of styles like Small Circle Jujitsu, Kyusho Jitsu, Shaolin Gongfu etc...those who were willing to share with me. I only question one or two people's "inflated" and perhaps "bought" rank, but who really cares?  I do what I do, and I look forward to many more years training with my Kajukenbo family. I'm now 58, so maybe I have 20 more years left!

Offline Dean Goldade

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2008, 08:40:09 PM »
EVERY martial art has its good points and not so good points. That's what Kajukenbo is trying to fix by not "staying inside the box". As far as rank...I always say: We never deserve the rank our teacher gives us. It is a reminder that we must work "into" that rank and BECOME that rank. That makes us (I hope) work harder to improve ourselves and your students.
 Sometimes I would just like to work without a belt, my students, too, and just come in and share what we all know. I have learned lots from Dr. Bono, Ron Esteller, Tom Theofanopoulos and others in Gaylord's Method. Oh, and from other teachers of styles like Small Circle Jujitsu, Kyusho Jitsu, Shaolin Gongfu etc...those who were willing to share with me. I only question one or two people's "inflated" and perhaps "bought" rank, but who really cares?  I do what I do, and I look forward to many more years training with my Kajukenbo family. I'm now 58, so maybe I have 20 more years left!

Professor Frank,
I agree completely. I have expanded my teaching based on experiences and learning from many..many others that all fit in the realm of KA / JU / KEN / BO.. Our art was based & built on evolution and practicality.

Too many get wrapped up in ranks and titles. I teach most of my classes in shorts and without a belt. My students all know who is the Chief. I don't need to play dress up to get their attention.

My teachers have always supported my forward thinking, Gaylord, Yoshii, Pallen, always gave the support and guidance needed. With that I grew and continue to grow and help my students do the same. I have sought out many who have imporved my ability to teach / perform / express the art, and I absorb what's usefull and shitcan the rest.

If it were up to me we would just wear plain black belts, everybody would train with everybody, and we would grow and truly share Ohana... If the Chiefs are too old to play hard then they coach... Their knowledge is contribution enough.

Anyway let's stick to our guns... Kajukenbo Forever & "Train strong  to remain strong"... Traditional or modern, let's make everyone who tastes our cup of tea know it is the "real deal".

And for brother Bono... All I can say is no matter what anyone says or "whispers"... You have been more of an inspiration to me over the years than I can say... You have shared your knowledge with me and others unselfishly. Taught those who were on the fence, the value of cross training... I would not be where I am today without your inspiration and common sense in the arts.. I love you brother, and I stand beside you always.

Dean.

Student of the arts
www.austinkaju.com

Offline Danjo

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2008, 12:32:45 AM »
I'm always in awe of what is possible via the internet. Despite the fact that much garbage is out there, there is much good also. Who would have ever thought 20 years ago that this many high ranking Kajukenbo people could get together this instantaneously and share knowledge and debate issues from where they were living around the world?

There is so much history (good and bad) and so many people to relate it, that much of it would have surely died out without being told if not for forums like this one. Though it's hard to absorb it all, so much can be learned in such a short period of time. To those of us who are Johnny Come Lately's, it's a real pleasure to be able to be brought up to speed on it this quickly.

I can totally see Prof. Scott's points about not bringing all the skeletons out of the closet, and letting sleeping dogs lie etc., but I think every effort should be made not to throw more skeletons in the closet either if it can be avoided.
"Rank Without Honor is Nothing."
Dan Weston
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FMAA
Don't tell me how much you honor Sijo, if you don't respect his wishes.

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2008, 12:41:13 AM »
Thanks for the Kind words Sigung Dean....we will discuss much in the next BoneDaddy meeting.......
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline GM Sotelo

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2008, 01:55:27 PM »
Professor Wholer & Hemenes,
This is going to take you way back... going back to GM Gaylord"s first blackbelts Manuel "Del" Delacruz, Fred O'Relliy and Gabe Varges. Del, Fred and I among other blackbelts would workout on Sundays without any belts or uniforms. We were Kaju, Kenpo karate at the time, later Gabe opened K school on MacArthur Blvd, he would join in at our school in San Leandro to work out. Sometimes he would bring his pet boa constrictor. I guess you guys remember that? Early on.. Gm Gaylord had his school at the old skating rink in the Irvington District in Fremont. sometimes Fred, Del and a few others would meet, train and exchange ideas.. It was good times with no egos.. In the early days no one was concerned about a degree. But highly respected the 4th, 5th and 6th degrees which were rare. Being a black belt among friends and strangers was good enough. We were respected by just having a "blackbelt". Judo chop, karate chop was a deadly term to describe martial artists... Now the clout goes to blackbelts in Jujutsu with no degrees. The term in the day was called "chop suey sytle" meaning anything that works in...I believe Karate tournaments destroys the essence of Kaju being an effective self defense. Meaning you train for the tournament to "pull back" your punches.

I was the product of my enviroment. My neighborhood did not care if you had a blackbelt.. They wanted money or would punk you for just being on thier turf. If you put your history out there, you may be called out on your background and knowledge. Somethings should be left inthe closet if other people know your background. Sifu Rob Moga has our old shirt that read "cross trainer" no belts, no ranking. A teeshirt was our only uniform.

GM Ted

p.s.
we always wore shoes and loose pants for kicking. (LOL)

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2008, 03:06:25 PM »
GGMG and some of the others have told me about that and the Goodtimes they had.....the roof leaking and they still trained in the puddles etc...that's funny about the shoes and pants.....and now it's full circle....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

frank w.

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2008, 03:42:47 PM »
Ah, yes GM Sotelo! I started training with James Juarez in 1978, so I was a few years late! But I remember the stories of the "better old days"...I almost "hate" tournaments nowadays,too. You can't even come close to a groin shot anymore!
So, they've taken away most of our targets!! My young students like to go, nmostly to do forms...but we don;t win that much because we make our forms look 'real', not a bunch of yelling and back-flips! Oh, well...Git-R-Done! Frank Wohler

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2008, 05:50:44 PM »
I almost "hate" tournaments nowadays,too. You can't even come close to a groin shot anymore!

Weird, to me.  Did this rule grow from an era during which groin protection was unreliable?  The Bike "banana" cup and others can handle just about any shot.  I don't see why groin strikes in grappling/punching (Pancrase-style) or in standup aren't allowed.  Would it change the tournament so much?  I think groundfighting would change dramatically, but I'm not so sure about stand-up fighting.  Is it simply unappealing to watch such a tournament?
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline grand master hemenes

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Re: Question on Rank
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2008, 06:04:21 PM »
gm ted thats so funny abought vargas and his snake he use to bring them out when the rent was due in the san leandro school and tell me to sit at the front desk when the land lady would come in becouse she was scared of the snakes and leave he tought that was so funny seeing the little old lady run like hell.
 
back in those days there were no pads mouth peices maybe a shin gaurd and cup but when it was sparring time you just use to bow and go at it. and if no one blead that night it was not a good sparring night. vargas use to pull out his real sword make you stand in front of him and eather you jumed or you duck he dident care if he hit you or not. but that was black belt class. but things have changed now you could never do that kind of stuff now you will get sued. so its kind of funny now when i here the new genuation of kajukenbo black belts talk abought the hard training they dont even have a clue!! they could never handel it back then it took a true black belt to make it.

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