Author Topic: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?  (Read 13308 times)

Offline NYKaju

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2008, 06:21:31 PM »


Calcium supplements = good for you


Actually, too much calcium can increase your risk of prostate cancer, I believe.  Everything in moderation.

Alright Mr. "I'm in med school, so I know all about things that James pretends to be an expert on." You win this round  ;)
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Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2008, 06:23:01 PM »
Yes, I do believe that Mas Oyama killed bulls, but only because I personally know someone who watched him do it, and I have seen video clips of it! He killed over 50 bulls, and although a legend like that could have been fabricated in ancient times, there is enough modern evidence and people who saw him do it that I do not believe that claims like that could not be fabricated in front of massive modern day audiences. Even Ed Parker traveled to Mexico to watch Mas Oyama fight a bull.

I've been in interested in this topic as well.  I've seen some Oyama clips on YouTube, and the bull doesn't look like any I've seen.  Even a regular ol' cow is harder to handle. Was this bull sick or drugged?  Bull horns can be drilled or weakened.  While I respect the tradition of Oyama, I don't appreciate the magic tricks.

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Offline NYKaju

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2008, 06:28:38 PM »
I've been in interested in this topic as well.  I've seen some Oyama clips on YouTube, and the bull doesn't look like any I've seen.  Even a regular ol' cow is harder to handle. Was this bull sick or drugged?  Bull horns can be drilled or weakened.  While I respect the tradition of Oyama, I don't appreciate the magic tricks.



Most people beyond the most devout of Karate revisionists feel that the supposed bull was drugged. Much like Oyama's heir to ridiculous challenges against animals, Willi Williams who "fought" a declawed trained circus bear.

Marketing has always been and always will be around. And as long as gullible westerners believe that chinese monks could project energy from their hands, and that Ninjas could run on water, someone will be around to continue the myth for profit.
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2008, 07:09:43 PM »
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HrFlfgQ5yQE

Sonny Chiba is just awesome.  That's from a movie, though. 

These may be the Oyama clips mentioned in this thread. 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Aw6Ja1DwFnM

There are so many "cuts" in the closeup action that I'm left with the impression that this footage was completely staged.

Here's another link on what an undrugged, healthy, but young bull can do.  He will shred your gi !
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5RSP9mX2-6Y&feature=related
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2008, 07:32:09 PM »
From a movie??  I thought that was real....come on Gints you know me better then that...I figured it was a play on Oyama
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Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2008, 07:40:20 PM »
From a movie??  I thought that was real....come on Gints you know me better then that...I figured it was a play on Oyama

Yeah,you get a kick out of messing with me since I'm so serious about debunking fake martial arts footage.  So, I dredged up the real YouTube footage.  Have you seen better clips of Oyama?  These appear to be highly edited.
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2008, 08:28:07 PM »
I've seen the Oyama video before, really hard to se anything....the other guy seen that also, better his pants then what it could have been....I tend to trust most.....what can ya do...
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Offline cirillo

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2008, 09:25:27 PM »

Quote
Calcium supplements = good for you


Actually, too much calcium can increase your risk of prostate cancer, I believe.  Everything in moderation.

Better to focus on vitamin D supplements for bone density.  Have your bone density tested first might be a plan.  Not everyone needs such things.  ;)
Sifu Jeffrey D. Cirillo,  7th Degree Black belt in Wun Hop Kuen Do under GM Al Dacascos and 3rd Degree in FaChuan (Blossom Fist) under Sifu Bill Owens with over 35 years experience in the martial arts.
College Station, TX

Offline Jason Goldsmith

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2008, 09:30:17 PM »


Better to focus on vitamin D supplements for bone density.  Have your bone density tested first might be a plan.  Not everyone needs such things.  ;)

Yup.  Most people get enough through all the fortification in milk when they are James' age though luckily.
Sifu Jason Goldsmith
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Offline cirillo

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2008, 09:47:31 PM »
Milk only gives about 400 U (with maximum intake).  Suggestion is now something over 4,000 U to make a difference.  That would be a lot of milk.  Like I said, depends on the person, how much sun they get, a few other things I am not going to go into right now.  If you care, just have your bone density tested, it is easier than getting all the info straight.  Certainly everything says the calcium alone doesn't help and may actually be detrimental.  Not the same for vitamin D.  Though I am sure overdoing that one is a problem too.  ALL things in moderation. ;D

By the way, we are off topic... shame on us.... look down on fighting events?  Because money is involved... there you go, on topic somewhat. ;)
Sifu Jeffrey D. Cirillo,  7th Degree Black belt in Wun Hop Kuen Do under GM Al Dacascos and 3rd Degree in FaChuan (Blossom Fist) under Sifu Bill Owens with over 35 years experience in the martial arts.
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Offline NYKaju

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2008, 11:49:31 PM »
By the way, we are off topic... shame on us.... look down on fighting events?  Because money is involved... there you go, on topic somewhat. ;)

Well played sir.

And to steal the line of argument from the lawyer thread...when is money not involved? In anything? :)
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Offline Jason Goldsmith

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2008, 08:25:02 AM »
Milk only gives about 400 U (with maximum intake).  Suggestion is now something over 4,000 U to make a difference.  That would be a lot of milk.  Like I said, depends on the person, how much sun they get, a few other things I am not going to go into right now.  If you care, just have your bone density tested, it is easier than getting all the info straight.  Certainly everything says the calcium alone doesn't help and may actually be detrimental.  Not the same for vitamin D.  Though I am sure overdoing that one is a problem too.  ALL things in moderation. ;D

By the way, we are off topic... shame on us.... look down on fighting events?  Because money is involved... there you go, on topic somewhat. ;)

Unfortunately Vitamin D is highly fat soluble (as you know), which makes figuring out what to do rather complicated, as you've mentioned.  Bone scans are also pretty cheap (especially in relation to downing a bunch of needless supplements), so that's an excellent suggestion. 

As for the topic, I think it is because in part, most of the pro MMA fighters really don't have that many years of experience, are getting heralded as absolutely amazing by the public, and getting paid for it to boot. 
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Offline NYKaju

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2008, 08:52:19 AM »
"Those who can do, those who can't teach" - Chinese proverb
« Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 08:56:20 AM by NYKaju »
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Offline Wado

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Re: Why do martial artists look down on fighting events?
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2008, 12:43:29 PM »
...As for the topic, I think it is because in part, most of the pro MMA fighters really don't have that many years of experience, are getting heralded as absolutely amazing by the public, and getting paid for it to boot. 

I would like to expand on this thought a little more.

Olympic athletes are seldom older than in their late twenties when they compete, even more often they are teenagers or early twenties.  People have few or no issues with young athletes. 

When a person is that young, they can be a great athlete but they seldom have the amount of experience and knowledge that they will have when they are much older.

MMA fighters often are in the same boat, they are athletes not martial arts masters because the vision of a master is someone not just with ability but also with great amounts of knowledge and experience.  Most athletes, IMO, will dominate a much older martial artist in an up-and-up fair fight.    It is only the experience and knowledge combined with ability that can give the older marital artist an edge... in other words, it is never a "fair" fight.

Those that are older and can dominate others including the strong athletes in a "fair" fight are, IMHO, a very rare breed... they are "freaks of nature" and I mean this with the utmost respect and in a good way.
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