Author Topic: CHA3 Kenpo videos?  (Read 14560 times)

Offline Gints Klimanis

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CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« on: May 20, 2008, 01:40:51 PM »
Has anyone seen any CHA3 Kenpo videos on-line?  My branch descended from CHA3, and I'd like to check how both old and new CHA3 would look. 

Here are some from my club, although those with the name "EricDance" were synthesized recently.

http://gentlemensfightingclub.com/GoShinJutsuKenpo/Videos/
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline John Bishop

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Offline Kenpo_85

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Re: CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2008, 01:58:17 PM »
Gints, I haven't been able to find any CHA3 videos anywhere besides the youtube ones that you shared with me via email (Professor Bishop just posted them). From those videos, I can see that the art and the traditions are all pretty much the same as what you and I practice, although there aren't many recognizable routines that mirror any of ours.

From what I understand, the vast majority (if not all) of the main 55 defensive arts in set one (don't know about set 2, or the partial set 3) that we practice came from the original CHA3 curriculum. As we have discussed, many of these arts themselves are not practiced by CHA3 any longer. I don't know if there was a point in time that Marino and/or Michael Tiwanak retired the old set of arts and implemented the new, or if they just evolved over time into a set that no longer resembles the old stuff and kind of has it's own identity because of it.

As far as my understanding goes, Ken-Ju-Bo-Ai is to CHA3 exactly how Go Shin Jutsu is to Ken-Ju-Bo-Ai (by this I mean that the founder leaves to create his own association, but changes very little in the process).
« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 02:05:43 PM by Kenpo_85 »

Offline John Bishop

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Re: CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2008, 03:37:28 PM »
As far as my understanding goes, Ken-Ju-Bo-Ai is to CHA3 exactly how Go Shin Jutsu is to Ken-Ju-Bo-Ai (by this I mean that the founder leaves to create his own association, but changes very little in the process).

A friend of mine told me about two of his students joining up with 4 other guys to make up their own system (Limalama).  When his students invited him over to check out their new training routines, he described it to me by saying; "it's like if you take your house and move all the furniture around, and then you try and convince others that you now have a new house".   
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Offline Kenpo_85

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Re: CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2008, 03:53:15 PM »
As far as my understanding goes, Ken-Ju-Bo-Ai is to CHA3 exactly how Go Shin Jutsu is to Ken-Ju-Bo-Ai (by this I mean that the founder leaves to create his own association, but changes very little in the process).

A friend of mine told me about two of his students joining up with 4 other guys to make up their own system (Limalama).  When his students invited him over to check out their new training routines, he described it to me by saying; "it's like if you take your house and move all the furniture around, and then you try and convince others that you now have a new house".   

I see what you're saying Professor, however I have to somewhat disagree. I see it more as if your child grows up and moves out, and buys a house of his own and starts a family of his own. He leads the family in a similar manner in which he was taught, and although there are some changes, the family ties are always acknowledged. I practice and teach Kenpo (which is the primary platform of all of our arts, including Original Method Kajukenbo), the same Kenpo that Marino Tiwanak taught, but I merely live in a different house than he did. :)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 03:55:08 PM by Kenpo_85 »

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2008, 04:29:33 PM »
http://gentlemensfightingclub.com/GoShinJutsuKenpo/Videos/Kenpo_Club5_RichLewis_500.wmv

this is my favorite, very old school stuff, but I like the fact that the guy is hurting and Prof Richard doesn't notice.GT
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Offline Kenpo_85

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Re: CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2008, 04:57:42 PM »
Yep, that's how we do it! Professor Lewis was awfully nice to him once he had him on the ground though ;D

Offline V. F. Mateo

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Re: CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2008, 07:56:58 PM »
Professor Bishop

Those videos looks very much like how it use to be. The rotation, club attacks, and boxing combination. Brings back memories of pain......as we age, we become the gentle warrior, ready but mellow.

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« Last Edit: May 21, 2008, 05:37:58 PM by V. F. Mateo »
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LOYALONEHK

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Re: CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2008, 01:04:59 AM »
Hmmm....  Any reason why he left the Weapon behind.    ???


Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2008, 10:06:54 AM »
To challenge himself of course
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Offline Kenpo_85

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Re: CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2008, 11:17:30 AM »
Hmmm....  Any reason why he left the Weapon behind.    ???

From the Kajukenbo techniques I've seen, they always disarm their attacker, and I can see the reasoning behind why they do it. We do not always disarm the attacker, however, based on the theory that if we're attacked with a weapon, the attacker should be too broken to even think about using it again in the near future when we're done with him. I do not know if Marino Tiwanak took that aspect out of the art that he taught, or if Emperado hadn't begun teaching it when Marino left him. One thing that I'm relatively sure about is that Kajukenbo did not have a large Escrima influence until later on, so there wouldn't be the same level of motivation for a Kajukenbo practitioner to take a club from an attacker and use it against him... well besides senseless ground beatings of course, which there are always room for in every defensive art. ;D
« Last Edit: May 21, 2008, 11:20:02 AM by Kenpo_85 »

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2008, 01:28:08 PM »
The guy looked disarmed to me....
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Offline Kenpo_85

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Re: CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2008, 01:38:17 PM »
He was indeed disarmed... perhaps I chose the wrong words. Replace the word disarm in my previous post with the words "seize the weapon". :)

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2008, 04:18:39 PM »
We do not always disarm the attacker, however, based on the theory that if we're attacked with a weapon, the attacker should be too broken to even think about using it again in the near future when we're done with him. I do not know if Marino Tiwanak took that aspect out of the art that he taught, or if Emperado hadn't begun teaching it when Marino left him.

Luke, we practice nearly the same arts.   Since 2000, I added the disarms to the Arts when I ran the class as a result of my Escrima training with the Inayan family.  Largely, I felt pressure to not change the Arts at all, so rather than inject flourishes with the weapon during the Art, I just added any weapons disarms and weapon followups at the end of the Art since the Arts in general were practiced with the liberty of ad lib finishing techniques after the Art was completed.   Club/Knife Arts included a disarm or weapon pickup and followup strikes to specific targets.   

There may have been an old-timer spirit of self-defense which included staying out of trouble and preserving life.  So, perhaps that is why all of the techniques start with an attacker rush and defender evasion, interception or counter-strike rather than pure offense.  Using a weapon on an unarmed, including disarmed, opponent may land you in jail.
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline Kenpo_85

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Re: CHA3 Kenpo videos?
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2008, 11:57:36 AM »
...so rather than inject flourishes with the weapon during the Art, I just added any weapons disarms and weapon followups at the end of the Art since the Arts in general were practiced with the liberty of ad lib finishing techniques after the Art was completed...

That's the way I do it myself. I often incorporate using the weapon against the attacker in my ground fighting techniques. The arm break technique at the end of Knife Art 2 is a perfect place to grab the knife and plunge it into their kidneys, or after the take down on Club Art 1 when you slide up the arm to prepare to perform the break, I also find that is a perfect place to grab the club under your left arm, and use it against them after the completion of the official art.