Author Topic: Asking for Rank???  (Read 20178 times)

Offline Mitch Powell

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2003, 04:01:53 PM »
I got an idea. Lets all promote ourselves and all our students to black belt, 9th degree (can't be higher than Sijo!). Then all we'll have to worry about is training!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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Offline Mell

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2003, 06:43:08 PM »
We also have the same policy.  Everyone starts over as a white belt.  If a student has trained extensively in another system they should accelerate quickly.  Because we require are students to retain all there knowledge, how can we start someone at an advanced rank who is unable to perform our basic material?  Most of the problems we have with cross trainers are the ones who come in too stiff, with no ablility to move fluidily.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
Sibak Mellody Porter
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Offline John Bishop

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2003, 10:59:42 PM »
I have black belts from other styles come to my school to either learn Kajukenbo or because they just want a place to work out.  
Right now I have  Hapkido,  Kempo Jujitsu, and Kung Fu San Soo black belts training with me.  I allow black belts to wear thier belt and be treated with the respect a black belt deserves as long as they wear the gi and emblem of the style they hold a black belt in.   If they want to put on the black gi and Kajukenbo patch they have to learn the requirements and test for the Kajukenbo black belt.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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Offline D-Man

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2003, 09:18:12 AM »
I currently train with black belts from different arts that definitely deserve respect.  However, we show all ranks respect.  Currently, these black belts probably couldn’t explain the basic principles of the straight punch, in our art.  I think that the issue of accomplished martial artist’s asking for recognition goes back to the old phrase, “empty your cup.”  This basically means to make room for NEW knowledge.  Each school and every martial art are so different, how can you expect to automatically understand what it means to hold a certain rank?  Why should it matter what rank it looks like you have?

If you believe that nobody should ask for rank, why should black belts?  If you believe that it’s okay to ask, why not handle the matter like any other?

I’m sure schools that do acknowledge ranks from other schools have their reasons too.  It’s all about priorities.

PS
Mell, you’re right on about the most common problem- they’re too stiff/hard.  What would happen if you allowed these people to participate in upper rank activities?  I sure wouldn’t want to work out with these guys in that manner-- too painful.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:04 PM by -1 »

Offline John Bishop

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2003, 10:04:42 AM »
You know I really like having the other style black belts in the class.  They wear their own uniforms and patches, so all the students already know they're not Kajukenbo, so they don't expect them to know the Kajukenbo techniques.  
The outside black belts I have presently are pretty well skilled.  But's it's not uncommon to have some outside black belts that really make your purple belts look good.  What better advertizing for Kajukenbo than to be able to show prospective students that your purple belts are more skilled than the other style black belt working out next to him. :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
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Jon Pack

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2003, 11:39:40 AM »
We address this situation on an individual basis.
First all students do 2 lessons with me one on one at their rank and we go from there.
Usually I encourage the black belts to wear their rank and train them in a seperate class and if they want to sit in on regular group classes from time to time that is also encouraged.
Most Black Belts at our school are actively teaching at other schools and are not interested in attaining rank they just want to work on realistic self defense techniques, which we are more than happy to accomidate.
Other lower ranks are also allowed to enter at their rank but are told they will sit at that rank until they have mastered all the curriculum for the next advancement.
We have only been in opperation since Sept. 2002 and have as many as 7 Black Belts come and train on Fridays for 2 hours.
They represent Tae Kwon Do, American Kempo, and American Karate(Tae Kwon Do and boxing mixed). Kempo movements are so foreign to most of them it has taken several months for them to get used to using circular movements.
For the student who is on the fence whether to transfer schools this will generally sway them. As for the black belts my philosophy is they have already climbed the mountain and that experience should be acknowledged.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

Offline got_kenpo?

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2003, 06:12:39 PM »
What about the student who asks to not be promoted or even refusing the rank?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
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Kempo-Sensei

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2003, 10:45:50 AM »
What about the student who asks to not be promoted or even refusing the rank?


If only all students could be like that!  

What I saw in the past was a gentleman who never saw the need to test for his black belt.  He was quite happy wearing brown for the rest of his life.  So after a couple of years of turning down black belt tests, his instructor promoted him in front of the whole school.

He never took "the test", but imo, he more than passed the requirements for any test I've seen.  He showed the true essence of what all martial artists should strive for.  And that is more knowledge, not more stripes!


-John
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

sleddog

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2003, 12:27:55 PM »
If we as instructors did not put such a high premium on the rank then the student would see no reason to want to attain it.

Some schools' bottom lines are met with things like rank testing fees etc.

I have actually met  a few people who had received honorary ranks in Kajukenbo and who subsequently started teaching and promoting based on that rank.

Ironically we hold the aquiring of advanced degrees in academics in very high regard. BA's, MA's and PhD's are not received without a clear and well defined strategy and desire to succeed. You don't just go to school indefinitely and then one day a monk comes along and gives you a degree.You know well in advance what the requirements are and the work necessary.

A can of worms.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

Kempo-Sensei

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2003, 01:06:59 PM »
I think that instructors should put a high premium on knowledge, not rank.  Most of the students at my school don't really care about rank.  In fact, when I invite people (adults, not the kids) to tests, they usually say something like, "sensei, are you sure I'm ready?  I could wait until the next test."  

To me that shows that they are more interested in understanding what they need to know, than actaully getting a new belt.

In fact, students who come to me and ask when they will be put up for a test are usually pushed off a little while.  Even if they were ready now.  And I only test every three months any way.

At my school, to earn a black belt you must pass a written exam.  If you don't pass this test, you don't pass the whole test.  This makes it cut and dry on that part.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

Offline Mell

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2003, 08:07:41 PM »
I have "requested" to hold my rank before.  (I have my own personal standards for where I want to be.)  Having made a request twice to hold at my rank, I was told that my request showed, to some degree,  level of disrespect to my instructor.  The view point was that it made it appear as though I thought he was not able to correctly view my ability.   I just go with the flow now....., I just want to train.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »
Sibak Mellody Porter
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Walt Andrae, Sigung

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2003, 12:05:58 PM »
I waited five and a half years to be told one afternoon that I would be testing that evening.  Sijo was coming in from Hawaii and I was to be one of four persons testing that evening in San Jose.  I took out a clean gi, my tattered brown belt, got in my car and drove to where the test would take place.  

I realized that another opportunity might be a long ways down the road.  I told one of the instructors that I'd play  marbles on the freeway before I quit.  (He had let me know that it would be a long and difficult test and that if I felt the need to stop, no one would say a word about it.)  

Later that night when Sijo put my first black belt on me (I've got pictures), I knew that it had all been worth it.  Chief Instructor (then) Halbuna made the decision when he felt it was time.  

It never occured to me to question or ask.  

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

Karazenpo

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2003, 12:41:13 PM »
  Mell, I know your intentions were sincere and I respect the fact that you set such high standards for yourself but I can also understand why your instructor would take it as kind of a 'slap in the face'.  You're essentially 'overruling' his decision and the message you sent him was that his subjective, but professional opinion takes a backseat to yours. Some may counter and say that's ego but I tend to differ. Being the Chief Instructor, it is his decision and not the student's to make, unless of course the student had a newly acquired injury of some sort. You wouldn't attempt to overrule or second guess your supervisor at work or your drill instructor in boot camp and I feel this goes along the same lines providing you have confidence in your instructor. I have to assume you do or you wouldn't be studying under him and if that's the case you have to let him drive. ;)  
   As far as how Sigung responded I have to agree. I was brought up in the arts to never question or never ask on the subject of rank and never thought of it.  A week before April 13th of this year at 51 years old, Grandmaster S. George Pesare informed me I would be going up for my promotion to 7th dan the next coming Sunday. I said thank you, expressed it an honor, bowed and I was there bright and early that Sunday! :)  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »

Offline Mell

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2003, 03:22:29 PM »
I'm guilty of comparing myself against others.  Both directions are bad.  Thinking too highly of ourselves is just as bad as thinking negatively about ourselves.    

Though someone else said it earlier - congratulations on your recent promotion Shihan.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:05 PM by -1 »
Sibak Mellody Porter
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Karazenpo

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Re: Asking for Rank???
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2003, 04:46:30 PM »
  Thank you, Mell. :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 1054443600 »