Author Topic: What is primary foundation of Kajukenbo in todays world of martail arts?  (Read 11533 times)

Offline Matt Powell

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Re: What is primary foundation of Kajukenbo in todays world of martail arts?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2008, 12:47:36 PM »
Thanks dad, appreciate the love ;D.  That is exactly how I feel though, you must survive because there is no second round in the street.  It all happens right there, right now in front of you and you must be able to adapt and be true to your ability to perform Kaj if you want to come out as the one who is alive.
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Offline kajukine2

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Re: What is primary foundation of Kajukenbo in todays world of martail arts?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2008, 09:37:22 PM »
Great posts!!! Hmmm the primary foundation of kajukenbo... Self defense in a nutshell.. that is our beginnings, and the REASON for our conception! Primary training should ALWAYS be on street survival. The MMA/BJJ/Muay Thai/ and all the sport combat arts that we have FUN with should be secondary training, still trained because they are fun to do and have their purpose for us, but always with a street mentality behind it. Grapple with knife deployment/throw out weapons in the middle of a sparring round etc.etc. etc.....

Case in point.. last night one of my white belts that has been training about 7 months was jumped while walking home from school
(16 yr old) I will highlight the things he did right as well as WRONG... First he was walking with a friend 6pm so it was dark, they were deep in conversation and not AWARE of their surroundings,  My student noticed a person by a tree as if he was LOOKING for something and payed no real mind to it, as they passed his friend got sucker punched, then 5 more come out of the shadows he was able to fend off 2 by moving and angling like he was taught in class, as we work multiple attackers almost every class. now that was the good stuff, now for the bad.... he was able to get one down, had him in the mount and dropping strikes and elbows, but guess what happened next.... yep you guessed it, he was getting kicked and punched from behind by the others till he fell off and they were all on him, lucky for him we work a drill that has 4 people with bags trying to keep you down and you have to fight your way back up.. he did..
but with all the hits and strikes he was very disoriented, one again lucky for him we work a drill where you spin till your dizzy then try to hit focus mitts (small targets) he was able to fight while disoriented....he survived with bruises but no blood loss...kajukenbo in a nutshell!
I think he is ready for yellow... what do you think??
« Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 10:48:10 PM by kajukine2 »
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: What is primary foundation of Kajukenbo in todays world of martail arts?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2008, 01:04:56 AM »
yup he earned it
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Offline Kenpo_85

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Re: What is primary foundation of Kajukenbo in todays world of martail arts?
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2008, 11:47:44 AM »
Knowing Kajukenbo is a hybrid martial arts, my question is what is the primary foundation of Kajukenbo? 

I'm a little unsure of what your question is. What art is Kajukenbo primarily built on? The answer to that question is none other than Kenpo! The original method Kajukenbo was at least 90% Kenpo (although I believe it has become more like 70-80% Kenpo today), as taught by professor Willie Chow, who is not given enough credit for what Kajukenbo was/is, IMO.

Kajukenbo practitioners tend to disagree, but I'm going to stick by my guns and say that Traditional Method Kajukenbo isn't just built on Kenpo... it is Kenpo! It may have some other stuff in the mix, but it's still Kenpo. If you compare Kara-Ho, Original Method Kajukenbo, CHA-3, etc, there's a whole lot more similarities than there are differences. After all, it it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... well, you get the point. ;)

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: What is primary foundation of Kajukenbo in todays world of martail arts?
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2008, 01:00:52 PM »
I think it is common knowledge it is Kenpo original you can google that, I thought he meant what is it now for each Instructor.....this would vary school to school.....
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Offline John Bishop

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Re: What is primary foundation of Kajukenbo in todays world of martail arts?
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2008, 02:25:22 PM »
Knowing Kajukenbo is a hybrid martial arts, my question is what is the primary foundation of Kajukenbo? 

I'm a little unsure of what your question is. What art is Kajukenbo primarily built on? The answer to that question is none other than Kenpo! The original method Kajukenbo was at least 90% Kenpo (although I believe it has become more like 70-80% Kenpo today), as taught by professor Willie Chow, who is not given enough credit for what Kajukenbo was/is, IMO.

Kajukenbo practitioners tend to disagree, but I'm going to stick by my guns and say that Traditional Method Kajukenbo isn't just built on Kenpo... it is Kenpo! It may have some other stuff in the mix, but it's still Kenpo. If you compare Kara-Ho, Original Method Kajukenbo, CHA-3, etc, there's a whole lot more similarities than there are differences. After all, it it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... well, you get the point. ;)


I'm not seeing those percentages.  Sure Sijo trained under Prof. Chow, and he always gives the prof. credit for being his teacher.  But I'm seeing a whole lot of jujitsu, judo, escrima, and boxing in "original Method" Kajukenbo that I don't see in kenpo systems.  In fact I can safely say that at least 75% of the combination techniques of the "original method" have some additional martial influences other then kenpo. 
The whole reason Sijo started the development of Kajukenbo was because he saw weaknesses and limitations in the kenpo (Mitose's Kenpo jiu jitsu) he had been taught.

   
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Offline Mitch Powell

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Re: What is primary foundation of Kajukenbo in todays world of martail arts?
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2008, 02:44:39 PM »
John, I'm with you. I believe the person who made the post was saying with the way martial arts has changed due to the influence of MMA/UFC style fighting he's wondering what we all use as our primary foundation in the Kajukenbo--are we grapplers first and strikers second? Are we strikers first and grapplers second? Do we balance it all out and focus on both. That's what I'm thinking.

Since Kajukenbo is a hybrid system that combines both striking (karate/kenpo/boxing) and grappling(judo/jujitsu) a teacher can stress more of one method over the other based upon what they like, what they are good at, or want to teach to their students. I like both striking and grappling, so we do both--in a Kajukenbo way! But if I was a big striker, I could easily shy away from teaching the grappling aspects and in just one generation my Kajukenbo would be much different.

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Offline Mitch Powell

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Re: What is primary foundation of Kajukenbo in todays world of martail arts?
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2008, 03:08:43 PM »
Kajukenbo is not kenpo. It is quite different in my opinion. Years ago, Sigung Dennis Petterson made up a "DNA" chart of the original method Kajukenbo techniques where he listed whether the primary move, secondary move, and/or ending move was based on the principles of karate, judo, jujitsu, kenpo, or boxing. I don't have the chart in front of me or I would be able to provide exact numbers. I seem to remember about 70% of the moves were kenpo/karate based, 28% judo/jujitsu, and about 2% boxing. My numbers could be off a bit, but I'm sure they are pretty close.

The original method has 105 techniques, if you don't count the A, B, C versions of techniques teachers have added over time (21 punch, 15 grab, 15 knife, 13 club, 8 two-man, 6 three-man, 1 four-man, and 26 alphabets). 

I've been very fortunate in having Ahgung Ramos, GM Shin, GM Bautista, and GM Davis as my Kajukenbo teachers. Through them I was able to learn both the early Ramos method of Kajukenbo and the original Emperado method of Kajukenbo. Both of these versions stress controlling the attacker after the primary strike by pushing, pulling, and/or twisting the attacker's wrist, arm, neck, etc. where the kenpo systems I have seen stress striking while following the nature movment of the body. Those are two very different concepts.
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: What is primary foundation of Kajukenbo in todays world of martail arts?
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2008, 03:14:16 PM »
Professor Mitch, you know I love to grapple, but a nice punch to the lips will get you home quicker in most case....I agree with you about just change the curriculum for a short time and the school changes...
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Offline NYKaju

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Re: What is primary foundation of Kajukenbo in todays world of martail arts?
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2008, 03:20:39 PM »
I’ve had the opportunity to train with several different Sifus and Professors of the art of Kajukenbo. The one thing that stands out is the different philosophies and approach to Kajukenbo. 

Some focus more on the standing aspects Karate and Kempo, versus the ground game of Ju-Jitsu. Some  8)focus on American boxing. However, for the most part they over look the aspect of Judo, which is very fundamental to close quarter-combat. Also, some instructors swear by forms and there benefit of muscle memory. Other dismiss them as to ridged causing the student to be stiff and lose creativity in real fighting situations.   

Knowing Kajukenbo is a hybrid martial arts, my question is what is the primary foundation of Kajukenbo? 

Kajukenbo is an enigma wrapped in a mystery, encased in a question, buried in a paradox :)
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: What is primary foundation of Kajukenbo in todays world of martail arts?
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2008, 03:21:57 PM »
Crack kills James....of course that describes holidays visiting the family...
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Offline John Bishop

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Re: What is primary foundation of Kajukenbo in todays world of martail arts?
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2008, 03:41:24 PM »

I've been very fortunate in having Ahgung Ramos, GM Shin, GM Bautista, and GM Davis as my Kajukenbo teachers. Through them I was able to learn both the early Ramos method of Kajukenbo and the original Emperado method of Kajukenbo. Both of these versions stress controlling the attacker after the primary strike by pushing, pulling, and/or twisting the attacker's wrist, arm, neck, etc. where the kenpo systems I have seen stress striking while following the nature movment of the body. Those are two very different concepts.

That is where I see the main departure from kenpo.  Although the starting technique may have been kenpo, the self defense combination flowed into a escrima limb destruction, or a jujitsu/judo throw, or takedown.   
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
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"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado