Author Topic: A Kajukenbo McDojo...  (Read 15186 times)

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2008, 04:31:34 PM »
Please, give the kids a chance in your art, don't pawn them off to some other instructor of questionable motive because you have a preconceived notion that they are "not ready". Try it out. Push the kids to the limits; this is the only way that you will get a feel for what they can take.

Well, I probably made a mistake with the Wushu recommendation, but I have a different philosophy on the matter.  Most martial arts schools and sporting programs believe that they produce their athletes rather than select them.   I see it more as a selection process.  This 11 year-old neighbor will probably end up in a bang-it up- martial arts school in a few years with a greater desire to learn and no actual time lost.
 
As for Americans being too soft, yes, we are.  If the USA were serious about athletic development, school programs wouldn't be dropping gym class and even recess.  Dodgeball has been banned in several states.  Japan still has mandatory Kenpo and Judo for high school students.  There is some hope for masculine development in the USA, and it's from teachers like you.   


"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2008, 04:40:59 PM »
Dodge ball with 3 lb balls....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline jensad

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2008, 05:13:57 PM »
Hi Davied

This is :Professor Jim's teacher, Jim Nordlie.  You are right on track. The "if you ca afford it, we will award it" students, find out real quick on the street when they get their backsides knocked off.

Williams was taught old school as I was.  It takes about five and sometimes ten years, to get to black belt.  Try to remember the last black belt tests, which lasted about 2 2/2 hours, with only a ten minute break.  I.e. to be a black belt under Gaylord, you must know EVERYTHING, and be able to knock the crap out of the other students and a few of the black belts that are helping you do the test.

Remember if you are a black belt under Gaylord, ala Jim Williams, you are a 90 % better than other black belts on ANY system, and 99 % better than street fighters.

Hey, don't get discouraged.  Ask Jim about the black belt Bill Towne, a Japanese style black belt, in 1966 Bill wanted to spar with Jim who was a blue or a green belt, and other GREEN BELTS!!!!  Bill got the cra.. knocked out of him.

He then wanted to spar with me.  I was embarrassed FOR him as he was no more than a white/yellow belt in our school.

Take care.  I don't post much due to too many "salesmen" even here on the Cafe.  Professor Bono was right on when he posted that Williams is excellent as all of the black belts and students at his school are.

Jim Nordlie
Jim Nordlie
Since 1963 a student of Great Grand Master Charles H. Gaylord.

Offline jensad

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2008, 05:29:04 PM »
I hope I did not offend readers here.  I am passionate and a hard liner, about Kajukenbo and ours JMO, is the best system of fighting in the world.  But then I love what we do, and it was not my intention to upset anyone.  Gob bless Kajukenbo!!!


Jim Nordlie, GM, a student of GGM Charles H. Gaylord since 1963
Jim Nordlie
Since 1963 a student of Great Grand Master Charles H. Gaylord.

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2008, 06:17:14 PM »
Dodge ball with 3 lb balls....

Heh.  I have some great video footage of "medicine ball" dodge ball played with 5 and 15 lb medicine balls.  One hit me so hard in the head that it almost knocked me out.
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2008, 07:24:36 PM »
Oh you mean the balls you throw are heavy....I see.... ;D
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2008, 07:54:29 PM »
Oh you mean the balls you throw are heavy....I see.... ;D

Actually, they're too heavy for us lightweights to throw accurately, and there have been some hyperextended fingers.  The 3 pounders would make the game more fun.  Well, since dodge ball is banned, we'll have to make due with our own game.
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2008, 07:56:41 PM »
I think we are talking about two different things.... ;D
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline kfarny

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2008, 08:34:21 PM »
Oh, I see. Now I am being forced to come in here and defend my Black Belt, is that it?
What? You think I did not work for it? You think it was given to me? I'm on that list, as is my wife.
I have never come in here, Bullshido style, and put down anything anyone else has done.
No, we are not in the "Family tree" under the late G.M. Loren any longer. That was a personal matter between My Sifu and his Sifu. I dont know the whole story and would not speak to it here if I did out of respect for them.
However, the students that reamain have tried to maintain the very spirit of Kajukenbo by adhering to the old school methods that were taught. We take great pride in still being Kajukenbo. It may not be exactly what you do, but we try with everything in us to keep the old traditions and pass them down.
The owner opened up a Premier Branch on the other side of our fair city. It is NOT affiliated in any way with what we do. Our adult class is Kajukenbo. I have suffered through broken ribs, fingers, lacerations, sprains and all of the other stuff that makes Kajukenbo what it is. Our school also offers Krav Maga, taught by certified people. We have BJJ, and recently promoted four of our students to Blue by Pedro Sauer, a Rickson Gracie Black Belt. The children are not taught Kajukenbo. What they do is based on trying to make them better, healthier people at that age by focusing on leadership, respect, self-confidence and self-esteem. They can raise to the rank of Jr. Black Belt. They understand that this is NOT an adult Black Belt and signifies time, effort and skill associated with their program. Many of those young people have gone onto our Kajukenbo program where they must start at the bottom again and move through the ranks.
My Sifu has the right to run his business as a business to feed his family and make a living like anyone else. He provides an excellent place to train. It is a very clean, neat, well lit school. We are not lacking for mats, pads, weapons, training time or anything else. I have been treated most fairly by everyone there. Yes, they do actually charge money. It is a fair trade.
It is a shame that it is automatically lumped into the McDojo category by the board.
Kirk Farnsworth   3rd Degree,  East/West Method Tum Pai
East West Martial Arts, Master Doug Bertrand
Vancouver, Wa.

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2008, 11:45:46 PM »
What school are you from?
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline kfarny

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2008, 12:14:29 AM »
Right here Professor.
http://www.vancouvermartialarts.com/
I have never met Mr. Perry and have no idea what his school is like or who his instructor is. I would not presume to speak for or about that. I would expect the same courtesy.
Kirk Farnsworth   3rd Degree,  East/West Method Tum Pai
East West Martial Arts, Master Doug Bertrand
Vancouver, Wa.

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2008, 08:47:35 AM »
So the same family sort of... I think what scares people most is a young school having a huge list of Black Belts, every teacher knows how few people really deserve the rank... if you give a Black Belt to a student I think you should be able to trust them to have your back if you were jumped and they were with you...  Maybe that should be the standard...do you feel safe with that person having your back...  I know mine would fight till they no longer could move....I know many Instructors that could say the same....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline DKF1

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2008, 10:15:11 AM »
Grandmaster Nordlie and Professor Bono, thank you for your comments and encouragement. I hope I was not sounding as if I felt like I was behind in any way. Mostly just my brand of sarcasm. Yes, Professor Williams is one of the best instructors I have had the privelage to study with, and the black belts at our school definitely have earned their belts and my respect as instructors. I hope to EARN my black belt as well one day, but earn is the key word. I wouldn't have it any other way. Time is of no real essence in the process to me, because it is the journey and the knowledge I seek, not simply the belt. Black belt is really just the short term goal, I plan to continue training as a life long pursuit.

My comments were not meant to offend anyone from the school under discussion. I just find three years to be pretty fast. I take nothing away from you if you did indeed EARN your belt.
David Fraga
Black Belt - Concord School of Karate
Williams Kajukenbo
Gaylord's Method

Offline Kenpo_85

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2008, 10:43:57 AM »
There is some hope for masculine development in the USA, and it's from teachers like you.   

Thanks for the kind words! :)

Oh, I see. Now I am being forced to come in here and defend my Black Belt, is that it?
What? You think I did not work for it? You think it was given to me? I'm on that list, as is my wife.
I have never come in here, Bullshido style, and put down anything anyone else has done.
No, we are not in the "Family tree" under the late G.M. Loren any longer. That was a personal matter between My Sifu and his Sifu. I dont know the whole story and would not speak to it here if I did out of respect for them.
However, the students that reamain have tried to maintain the very spirit of Kajukenbo by adhering to the old school methods that were taught. We take great pride in still being Kajukenbo. It may not be exactly what you do, but we try with everything in us to keep the old traditions and pass them down.
The owner opened up a Premier Branch on the other side of our fair city. It is NOT affiliated in any way with what we do. Our adult class is Kajukenbo. I have suffered through broken ribs, fingers, lacerations, sprains and all of the other stuff that makes Kajukenbo what it is. Our school also offers Krav Maga, taught by certified people. We have BJJ, and recently promoted four of our students to Blue by Pedro Sauer, a Rickson Gracie Black Belt. The children are not taught Kajukenbo. What they do is based on trying to make them better, healthier people at that age by focusing on leadership, respect, self-confidence and self-esteem. They can raise to the rank of Jr. Black Belt. They understand that this is NOT an adult Black Belt and signifies time, effort and skill associated with their program. Many of those young people have gone onto our Kajukenbo program where they must start at the bottom again and move through the ranks.
My Sifu has the right to run his business as a business to feed his family and make a living like anyone else. He provides an excellent place to train. It is a very clean, neat, well lit school. We are not lacking for mats, pads, weapons, training time or anything else. I have been treated most fairly by everyone there. Yes, they do actually charge money. It is a fair trade.

Well I certainly hope that what you say is true, and that what I have been told (and that the overwhelming impression that the website gives) is not true. Although I have chosen not to make any money off of the training that I provide, I certainly do not demonize anybody who makes a buck off of his time teaching, provided that it is indeed an HONEST buck. As I said, if what I am hearing is the truth, then I salute you.

Quote
It is a shame that it is automatically lumped into the McDojo category by the board.

To be honest, whether East West really is a McDojo or not, they've kind of dug their own grave on this one. They have put up a website that smells very McDojoish, with a 6th degree instructor who uses the title "Master" (as far as I'm concerned, that title and all similar titles are reserved for 9th and 10th degree), and quotes in various places around the site that sound like they would have come straight out of a McDojo. We have come to a conclusion, pretty much unanimously, based on the evidence that we have been given. Maybe this should be an eye opener to East West about how they present themselves, and the impression that it gives. No disrespect meant here, I just want to make the point that we are all just examining the evidence before us, not merely speaking out of our you-know-whats.

I think the bottom line is, if you are happy with the training that you have been provided there, then stick with it.

Offline steve B

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Re: A Kajukenbo McDojo...
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2008, 12:15:11 PM »

I did not mean to offend either. However my comments about Premier Martial Arts are based on some interaction with them and yes it most certainly is a mcdojo operation. Maybe my experience does not reflect yours, and if you like what your doing, I say go get it with all the sincerity in the world. 
Steve Bramel
Black Belt/2nd Deg.
Heart Of Texas Kajukenbo
H-Town Branch