Author Topic: Re:How do you deal with..........  (Read 3780 times)

Offline Bautista's

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Re:How do you deal with..........
« on: October 14, 2003, 09:41:09 AM »
A very difficult question to answer with out knowing the circumstance and the people involved. The ages, there gender, there relationship with others. Animosity is a very serious thing and things don't click when there are dissension in the family. How would I handle it, well every situation are different depending on the case. Should there be a lawyer present?
Emil Bautista
Kajukenbo black belt (1966)

Offline Chief Instructor

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Re:How do you deal with..........
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2003, 02:29:44 PM »
Sir,
 
My advice is to seek a mediator to "try and resolve it by communicating with the both of them." As instructors, we always feel we can judge the situation fairly. However, this isn't always so. A good mediator is one who doesn’t know either of these students and can be totally objective. (I believe GM Bautista also warned you that emotions get carried away.)

I feel confident in recommending mediation for I have successfully mediated lots of minor and major disputes including small claims courts, child custody disputes and labor contracts. Yes, even families can use mediation. I once mediated a dispute with a single mom and her teenage son. The goal in mediation is to create a win-win situation for everyone.

A good resource is "Getting Past No: Negotiating Your Way from Confrontation to Cooperation." If you live close to a law school or mediation training program, you might try contacting a professor who teaches mediation courses. Oftentimes, s/he might have some trained students who need supervised practice and would be willing to work for free.

Respectfully,
Sigung Andrew Evans, KSDI #888
Hokkien Martial Arts, Topeka, KS
http://www.TopekaKarate.com

sigungjoe

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Re:How do you deal with..........
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2003, 06:47:17 PM »
if it was up to me, student B better shape up or i will ask him to leave the school.
joe
« Last Edit: October 14, 2003, 06:48:22 PM by sigungjoe »

Offline kajudaddy

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Re:How do you deal with..........
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2003, 10:15:18 PM »
this is just my low ranking opinin(lol).i would talk to student b.student a is more valuable to the school,becouse sets a good example for the others to follow.student be needs to dedicate himself so he feels better about himself.
Paul Ferber
4th degree
Eugene Ray Kajukenbo
Great Falls,MT

Offline Serene

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Re:How do you deal with..........
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2003, 12:00:12 PM »
From reading some of ther responses are you telling me to look at the heart of the student?  
Sifu Serene Terrazas
Head Instructor
Terrazas Kajukenbo
American Canyon, Ca.

Offline Chief Instructor

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Re:How do you deal with..........
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2003, 01:37:51 PM »
The premise of my previous advice is to get some assistance from those who do not have a direct stake in the matter. Looks like this forum has provided you with some good insights. Not knowing the whole situation, I assumed you already did what I recommended in this posting. Yes, the first step is to look into the student's heart.

The best way to look into a student's heart is to sit down and talk. Tell the student you need time to discuss the his or her growth in Kajukenbo over dinner. Maybe the student has a lot of stresses and pressures in his or her personal life that is being dealt with. This would be a good time to find out. A lot of students feel a need to keep their private life private. However, when it starts to affect training that's where instructors start to intervene. Showing that you notice something is wrong and taking the time to address the issue will earned the student's respect.

If this doesn't work, then maybe my advice for a mediator applies.
Sigung Andrew Evans, KSDI #888
Hokkien Martial Arts, Topeka, KS
http://www.TopekaKarate.com

Offline ALAN

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Re:How do you deal with..........
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2003, 02:48:08 PM »
Hi,


What an Interesting question and awkward situation. It's funny how teaching (and training) can bring you into places you never thought you would find yourself.  :)

Without knowing the entire situation, I have to ask if it's impossible to have student A and B work together in class? Not knowing anything about the animosity between the two students, it might not be an option.  In which case don't try this  :)  :)

I would try to create an enviornment that enables  student A to help student B with his training. In class, I would pair them up. (Pleas... just hear this out.)

Maybe have student A show student B a new counter or a new kata section, or have them holding the focus mits or the kicking shield. I would start out with a Kata, as that would minimize the physical contact and the potential for flairing tempors.  ;) Whatever they work on you are in the background watching and controlling the enviornent. You can always stop the excersize at anytime. This gives you more opportunities to see how they interact, and if possible give you the option of talking to studnet B about situations that develop in class.

Isn't compassion stronger than jeoulosy, envy and hatred? Perhaps student B will find it hard to hold jeoulousy, envy, and animosity towards someone who is sincerely trying to help him improve in the art. Maybe it will eliminate the external competition that student B is experiencing in his head.

I admit my response is not from a teachers point of view.
I'm speaking as someone who knows what it's like to have a newer student pass him up in abilities.

Good luck with this and please keep us posted on how things turn out.

Hopefully Student B will learn to stop comparing himself to others and focus on his own development.


 
Alan Nibler
2nd degree BBelt
Professer Gagnier (KSDA)

Offline John Bishop

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Re:How do you deal with..........
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2003, 04:31:33 PM »
Normally, sometime in the beginning weeks or months  I have a talk with new students.  
I usually tell them that the longer they stay with the martial arts, the group of people in class with them when they started, will get smaller and smaller.  
I tell them that because of factors like ability, effort, attitude, and attendance, they may be passed up by other students, or they may pass up other students.
That the more they put into their training, the more they will get out of it.
And that they have to understand that there are so many factors in their lives that will effect the amount of time that they can train.  
The list is endless:
marriage
divorce
new baby's
night school
new jobs
family obligations
other sports or activities
illness or injuries
lack of strong work ethic
low athletic ability
high athletic ability
supportive family
non-supportive family
supportive instructors
mediocre instructors
etc, etc, etc,

Unlike the McDojo's, we can't put our students on a 18-24 month black belt program, and tell them that "you will be ready to be a black belt at the end of this program".
But, we can tell them that we (Kajukenbo, and the school) are a family, and that we will be there for them in the good times and bad.  But, being a family means that everyone shares the family spirit.  Family members disagree and fight at times, but the family can't continue to exist if it is a constant thing.  Just like real life, jealousies, animosities, and envy, will destroy relationships.  So, they have no place in the Kajukenbo and school family.  
So, I guess my suggestion is for the instructor to sit down with each student and talk about the factors that are effecting (good or bad) their progress.  And point out that it's not a bad thing to get behind other students.  Everyone progresses at their own rate.  The single adult student that can attend classes 4-5 nights a week will progress faster then the married student who misses a couple classes a week because he/she is watching their child play little league or something.  But being a good parent is more important then your training, so those family obligations come before your Kajukenbo family obligations.
 As was pointed out by GM Bautista, "ability", "attendance", and "attitude" are important factors in a students progress.  Make sure the students understands that some "ability" may be a gift from God, and "attendance" may be limited by other obligations, but "attitude" is 100% controllable by only them.  
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline Serene

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Re:How do you deal with..........
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2003, 03:24:03 PM »
Gentlemen:

I learned a lot from reading your post. I appreciate your insights and comments.

Great post Shodanson and very interesting. That takes you know what to ask a question that we all know exist but choose not to speak. Very few people would have posted such a question. Good for you. I hope the comments were helpful to you. Your instructor would be proud of you.

This question is a great fear to many and it showed. My hat goes off to those instructors that gave there comments and insights on how they deal with what could happen in a dojo.

I guess the best way to handle this is just ol'fashion communication.  :) Loyalty is to the art not to who was born in the house.

So easy, but yet we make it so hard on ourselves.  ;)



Soifua,
Sifu Serene Terrazas
Head Instructor
Terrazas Kajukenbo
American Canyon, Ca.

Offline WuChi0

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Re:How do you deal with..........
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2003, 01:06:57 AM »
The emotions listed is subjective to the individual who is feel it. One thing I learned from Martial arts id being centered and balance.  Not onl;y physically but emotionally.  I can not change what another person is feeling.  I can only suggest to the person that other people may see their actions as something other than what they may feel what is happening.  The the person's mind they are justified in what they are feeling.  Emotions are a part of being a human being,  I feel that a martial artist should be aware of his emotions and not be controlled by it.  Emotions can be a powerful motivator and can be channeled to a positive outcome.  I have not reached the level of nirvana and sometime my emotion control my actions.  Compromising to have harmony and balance should be the goal.   My humble perspective in life.  
Michael SAMALA
Kajukenbo Professor, 8th degree
Ordonez Kajukenbo Ohana Co-founder, Frank Ordonez "Uncle Frank"
Kajukenbo-Kenkabo, Grand Master Sixto Ramos Jr
Hui O Na Koa Kulike, Grand Master John Pagdilao
Hawaiian Kenpo Self Defense Club

Offline Mell

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Re:How do you deal with..........
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2003, 09:51:14 PM »
I think it is always best to talk first.

Recently, someone at our school made a comment to me about how I didn't get along with one of our other students.  I was quit shocked as I do not feel any animosity towards that student at all.  In fact I actually like working with that person.  (That would explain why I haven't been paired with them in training for a while.) Fortunately that was cleared up and things are back to normal.  Maybe your situation is really something minor that can be worked out with just conversation?  I hope the "feelings" aren't as bad as they may appear and that we hear from you that everything is fine, soon.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2003, 09:52:02 PM by Mell »
Sibak Mellody Porter
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