~"father of mma"=Bruce Lee?

[Women Warrior]

Aloha Brother Ron,

are you talking about me domestic dispute? and about me be sensitive hell ya!! llike I said did anyone ask Sijo who is the first MMA, NO! I doubt it.
I'm not sensitive it's a big loss to not only me but everyone that knows Sijo Emperado. I jus didn't understand now that Sijo is gone that all this questions
come up about who was the first MMA.  It never came up when he was alive.  And no disrespect I LOVED SIJO!! and everyone here in Maui too.  and I 'm
not saying only us on Maui loved him it was deeper then Love when you change his pampers & showered Sijo.

Respectfully & A'ole Pilikea,
SiGung Kailani

[GForbach]

Wow!  Interesting debate.....
Just my opinion, but what I think Sigung Kailani was trying to share was that, Sijo and the Co-Founders were the first of the "modern" marial arts Masters to mix them into a "street" system.  Not taking away from the "ancient" arts, I think she was taking about, the Judo, Juijtsu, Karate, Kung-Fu, American Boxing arts that would be considered, "modern," not arts that are one or two thousand years old.
As for Bruce Lee (one of my heros) I think he was about 8 or 9 years old when Kajukenbo was developed.
And I also don't get the "domestic" comment or what it has to do with this discussion.
Aloha,
God Bless Sijo and Kajukenbo...
Gary Forbach

[grand master hemenes]

this might make some people mad and no disrespect to sijo but if it was not for bruce lee there would be a lot of kajukenbo black belts that would not have met sijo or any type of martial arts out there including myself im 50 years old now and i was a small boy when i saw bruce lees first movie and that was one of the reasons i got into martial arts which lead me to kajukenbo and was blessed to meet such a great man as sijo. so think on that one! who out there got into martial arts becouse of bruce lee?


                                                   prof. hemenes
















/ 

[GForbach]

?

[Twin Fist]

prof. hemenes,
You make a good point about Bruce Lee getting people into martial arts, and that is very true. it is also besides the point. The point is who originated MMA.

it wasnt bruce lee. Sijo and the other founders deserve much credit on THAT score.

[jensad]

Bruce Lee was in the SF bay area in around 1963/65.  GGMGaylord told me then that Lee and GGMG worked out together.  Indeed, GGMG has a photo of him and Lee.  My wife had her picture taken in 1965 with Lee.  As GGMG told me, that Bruce also trained with his brother, Bill Lee at Bill's school in Oakland.  So did GGMG.  I cannot confirm that Bill Lee had a school in Oakland.  However, that was told to me by my teacher GGMG.  This was all before Bruce went south to get into the tv/movies.

Professor Hemenes made an good point as Bruce Lee was a role model and in the forefront of the explosion of the martial arts in the USA. We in the martial arts owe a debt to what Bruce Lee did to publicize all of the arts.

Good luck to all and stay safe, and stay strong and God bless Kajukenbo.

jim nordlie, a student of GGMG since 1963

[KajuJKDFighter]

GGMG told me he had many pics, but they are not at his house from when Bruce was there from BBQ's etc.....I hope they surface some time for us to see..

[Ron Baker]

Aloha Brother Ron,

are you talking about me domestic dispute? and about me be sensitive hell ya!! llike I said did anyone ask Sijo who is the first MMA, NO! I doubt it.
I'm not sensitive it's a big loss to not only me but everyone that knows Sijo Emperado. I jus didn't understand now that Sijo is gone that all this questions
come up about who was the first MMA.  It never came up when he was alive.  And no disrespect I LOVED SIJO!! and everyone here in Maui too.  and I 'm
not saying only us on Maui loved him it was deeper then Love when you change his pampers & showered Sijo.

Respectfully & A'ole Pilikea,
SiGung Kailani

No, no, no.  I was cracking a joke about the "pankration" website. 

[Women Warrior]

Aloha Ron,

Much Mahalo for the "PONO" message, Forgive me Brother maybe I came out to strong.
But it has been difficult for me, and alot of other Kajukenbo ohana.  I guess it was jus
the wrong timming for me to see this on the cafe. I will try to remain strong for us to be
as one as Sijo wanted us to be. His first wish was for all of us Kajukenbo ohana to Malama
everyone and not fight among each other.  I have jus been under alot of pressure gathering
everything for Sijo's service.  It has'nt been easy for us here in Maui to make Sijo's service
the best as it should be. We have climb alot of mountains jus to come into agreement with alot
of things here.  So Brother forgive me for acting up!!! and don't worry we understand about
Sijo's expense not everyone can give it is hard times too I understand. But let us remember Sijo
as our Papa of Kajukenbo.

With Much Aloha & Respect,
SiGung Kailani

[punisher73]

I think your off subject they are talking about who started MMA

You had asked if Bruce Lee trained with some Kaju people.  I was trying to point out that Bruce Lee stayed with many other martial artists and learned from them, so it was more than likely that he did also get some kaju training at some point since Ed Parker studied with Emperado and was familiar with his system.

I then pointed out that Bruce Lee did not invent anything, all of that stuff was around before him, he just put his name on it and because he was a famous movie star he was given credit.

I think it was very on topic.

[Sifu Sin Bin]

The wisest man Solomon once said "There is nothing new under the sun". I agree with that whole heartedly. As long as people have been fighting they have been adding to their own "style" by watching others and fixing their flaws by understanding how the other guy won. Every Martial art is a mixed martial art, there is no such thing as a "pure" martial art. To say such would imply that someone did someting that no one has done before him and it was all original. A punch is a punch a kick is a kick.

[KajuJKDFighter]

I wasn't really asking......I thought it was common knowledge he did, it was placed with a picture of my teacher GGM Gaylord, so I thought it was pretty obvious what I meant, but maybe only to the bay area people.  I'm second generation in JKD so I'm pretty familiar with the background and I'm sure most of the martial art world know about the Long Beach internationals and Bruce Lee's demo...what I meant was just it wasn't pertaining to the title of the subject of MMA father, of course at this point that subject is long gone. 

Sigung Rob good point, also a white Gi is  a White Gi and a Black Gi a Black one.....well in the old days it was.....

[punisher73]

I wasn't really asking......I thought it was common knowledge he did, it was placed with a picture of my teacher GGM Gaylord, so I thought it was pretty obvious what I meant, but maybe only to the bay area people.  I'm second generation in JKD so I'm pretty familiar with the background and I'm sure most of the martial art world know about the Long Beach internationals and Bruce Lee's demo...what I meant was just it wasn't pertaining to the title of the subject of MMA father, of course at this point that subject is long gone. 

Sigung Rob good point, also a white Gi is  a White Gi and a Black Gi a Black one.....well in the old days it was.....

I understand now.  Actually, it isn't common knowledge that Bruce trained in Kajukenbo.  The more I read about the history of MA on the west coast it seems that there was ALOT of cross training going on.  This isn't well known to us midwesterners unless you are told by someone there.  There is a thread on another forum I read that was a big discussion about Ed Parker and Jimmy Woo (founder of San Soo) and people claiming that Woo "studied" with Parker and that is where San Soo came from.  It was just the normal crosstraining that was happening at the time with everybody sharing with everybody.

Back to the topic.  From the reading I have done on the history of organized MA's.  They all used to have all of the elements.  As time went on, different people specialized or only trained in one aspect and left the others out.  The oldest documents show kicking/punching/grappling/weapons as part of the system they learned.  The greeks actually formalized it into a competition and an Olympic sport (Pankration).  I'm sure there were others too, although not as documented.  But, that art is long lost.  I would say that the founders of Kajukenbo are the first to formalize everything back into one stye that would be the forerunner of MMA.

[KajuJKDFighter]

I'm sure that is true, funny how it has gone full circle, some arts went the way of MickyD's fast and quick to the Black Belt...but that's the nature of the beast.....if everyone was the same where would the uniqueness be....the world needs brain surgeons but it also needs ditch diggers.....

[Tim Vargas]

Here is a cool link, and part of our family tree.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seishiro_Okazaki


Tim