Author Topic: Kajukenbo's Future  (Read 56789 times)

Offline Rick Kingi

  • Senior Moderator
  • Blue Belt
  • *****
  • Posts: 327
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #135 on: December 18, 2010, 06:02:54 PM »
   I agree on the fact that we need something as a group to help build and keep Kajukenbo strong and there is doubt that we are one of the strongest organization in the world but we need a strong thread to hold it together and there are a lot of good ideals right now, I have offered to hold a round table meeting in Souther California this time in 2011 since we had two already up north around April or May I have a location already set up just need to know who is interested, it would be to talk about the needs of the orginization and all grandmasters or proffessor would be invited to show there forms from there branch of Kajukenbo so we can see where the differents are and I will start it off from my lineage of the late John Leoning and GM Carlos Bunda from there we can start making somthing standard or decide on something else, also the meeting would be for any one to speak up from the newest black belt to the oldest black belt. I would like to hear from you guys so we can set a couple of dates to pick from and maybe someone can put a agenda together or come up with some ideals there has to be a start and we did that up north now we need work of finishing things we spoke about and unite Kajukenbo as one.

Rick Kingi

Offline Greg Hoyt

  • BlackBelt
  • Blue Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 389
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #136 on: December 18, 2010, 07:37:45 PM »
Aloha,  When I earned my 3rd Degree and moved here to Arizona I knew I wanted to share Kajukenbo with whoever wanted to train.  I also wanted to add submission grappling to our curriculum, and I asked my instructor about it.  His reply was that I was a Kajukenbo Instructor, and no one could tell me what or what not to teach...as long as I was true to my Kajukenbo roots.  I have, and continue to train the way my instructor trained me, with honor, integrity, hard style.  That being said, I also believe that anyone, any size, shape, physical condition, etc, can benefit from training Kajukenbo.  In fact, those who have the least physical ability are the ones who most need Kajukenbo. 
I understand that some Kajukenbo Instructors incorperate MMA/Pro Kickboxing into their programs.  That's awesome.  I'm so proud to see the clover on the fight shorts of the fighters who train under the above mentioned Grandmasters/Instructors.  And I believe that Hoyt's Kajukenbo gets some benefits from the media exposure of Kajukenbo Fighters.  But I don't train fighters.  I want our students to BE ABLE to fight.  So I won't agree that our 5'6'' 260lb woman isn't training hard enough.  My responsibility and duty is to share and coach, to put our students into controlled situations that closely resemble street combat.  I have some personal experience with street combat, and with battlefield combat.  Yup, we do full contact drills, Bullrings, wall fights, all the good stuff.  But I don't hit the women or the teenagers as hard as I do the male students who have been training awhile. 
No disrespect to anyone. 
And, I will NEVER cross promote anyone.  I will never train another instructor's student without checking it out first.  I'll agree to that!!
Thanks,
Greg Hoyt

                           
Sifu Greg Hoyt
Hoyt's Kajukenbo, Peoria, Arizona
Under Sigung Trent Sera, Professor Kailani Koa
Train Hard - Fight Dirty

Offline John Bishop

  • Senior Black Belt
  • Black Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 2605
  • Seek Knowledge, Not Rank
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #137 on: December 19, 2010, 01:54:21 AM »
A lot of what Sifu Dan said was discussed at the Fresno unity meeting.  Things like: 1.  no cross ranking, 2. black belts who came from other schools have to train with you for at least 2 years before promotion, 3. No 10th degrees other then the founders, etc.  Many or most of the black belts in attendance expressed support for these things. 
Basically, a "Kajukenbo Code of Ethics & Standards" is something a Kajukenbo black belt instructor could pledge to follow.  It wouldn't mean joining a organization, paying dues, picking alliances, choosing methods, etc.  It would simply mean teaching the system with good ethics and high standards. 
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline MVPMatt

  • BlackBelt
  • Blue Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #138 on: December 19, 2010, 08:43:32 AM »
I think both GM's Harper and Kingi hit on the same idea, and that is a standard.

In a business, if you are selling a franchise, or seeking to open new locations, you HAVE TO have a duplicatable model.  Otherwise, everyone does something different and you stand to lose your identity. 

Kajukenbo IS strong right now, but to take it to the next level, there have to be things we all do in common to be recognized - to have our Kajukenbo identity.  Back to Sijo's basics is the best way to start.  What they were, how we ALL can teach from them.  Then schools can add grappling, MMA, Krav Maga, or whateva. 

But until we all begin from the same place, we can't all walk the same path.

I won't touch the politics!!   ;)

Merry Christmas y'all - Peace
Sifu Matthew Porter
3rd Degree Black Belt
Under Professor Rodney Alo
Athens, TX

Offline Sifu Sin Bin

  • Holy Cow, I am a
  • Senior Moderator
  • Black Belt
  • *****
  • Posts: 1391
  • YOU SUCK, TRAIN HARDER
    • check it out
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #139 on: December 19, 2010, 09:36:47 AM »
I think both GM's Harper and Kingi hit on the same idea, and that is a standard.

I won't touch the politics!!   ;)


You just did  8)
Professor Rob Peladeau
8th Degree - KSDI #672
Loyal Student and lifelong friend of
Grand Master Emil Bautista
NorCal Headquarters of K.S.D.I. Ambassador

Offline sifutimg

  • Senior Black Belt
  • Blue Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 341
  • Iron sharpens iron-so another man sharpens another
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #140 on: December 19, 2010, 01:38:02 PM »
As with any type of family or group we have our good things and our bad things.  I believe there are things in how we conduct ourselves that are just unsaid.  I mean things that are common sense.  The unity meetings thus far have highlighted some very good things that I believe most of us just follow those anyway.  I am of the mindset that Kajukenbo isn?t broken.  We have a very diverse set of individual?s world wide who have one thing in common, that is, they love Kajukenbo.  That in itself is very powerful I feel. 

Now if folks want to come together and create an organization of standards that is fine as long as that organization is accepting of those that want to be left alone or whatever.  I believe you will find many of the loners are already following those things I mentioned above that are just unsaid. 

I feel what has to happen to bring unity isn?t in an org or club or some body of individuals.  What needs to happen is all of us have to go out of our way to meet each other, go visit our brothers and sisters aboard, save & put together the funds to travel to the various events that are put on, call each other & talk honestly and openly about our schools & lives.  Forge and build positive relationships.  Don?t judge one another.  This is what I feel needs to happen more.

I applaud Sifu Ron for having a vision and working to execute to that.  I also applaud GM Harper, Professor Bishop, and Sifu Pat for giving there two cents in how they wish to conduct themselves.  They are all valid mindsets for sure.  For me I ask myself what really affects me and my expression of Kajukenbo both in a positive way and a negative way.  From that observation it?s very simple for me to live and experience this art.  All of us are very passionate about what we do, don't ever loose that!!  I have been doing this going on 31 years and realize that is not the same amount of time as GM Reyes and others but it is certainly enough time to objectively look at the state of things.  What I see is much more positive things than negative things.  Don?t look for the negative but also don?t put your head in the sand either.  Just become aware and choose which energy you wish to follow or lead.

Again go out of your way to talk and build relationships.  There is so much knowledge and perspective to share and learn from between one another.  It is truly amazing and I wouldn?t trade what I have, who I know, and what I do for all the tea in China.  My/Our Kajukenbo Ohana is truly wondrous and has so much to offer all of us.  Go to each others schools, travel to Hawaii for the memorial seminar, come up here to the NW Kajukenbo Gathering or the Federal Seminar that is every year, go to Portugal in 2012, AND most importantly GO TO KSDI n VEGAS!! 

With love and respect,
Tim
Grandmaster Tim Gagnier
Student of Great Grandmaster Charles Gaylord & Grandmaster Sid Lopez
Chief Instructor Pacific Wind Kajukenbo
Student Forever
Yamhill, Oregon

Offline John Bishop

  • Senior Black Belt
  • Black Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 2605
  • Seek Knowledge, Not Rank
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #141 on: December 19, 2010, 01:43:37 PM »
Please take note:
Some members have expressed objections to having what they are posting here on the Cafe, being copied onto other websites without their permission.  They also feel that members will be less inclined to talk candidly, if they know their discussions will be posted on websites they never intended to post on. 
The discussions here on the Cafe are meant to be viewed by Cafe members, and in forums open to the general public, visitors to the Cafe.  No member is to copy a post from the Cafe, and post it to any other website, without the permission of the author of the post. 
         
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline Ron Baker

  • BlackBelt
  • Brown Belt
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #142 on: December 19, 2010, 03:08:42 PM »
Please take note:
Some members have expressed objections to having what they are posting here on the Cafe, being copied onto other websites without their permission.  They also feel that members will be less inclined to talk candidly, if they know their discussions will be posted on websites they never intended to post on. 
The discussions here on the Cafe are meant to be viewed by Cafe members, and in forums open to the general public, visitors to the Cafe.  No member is to copy a post from the Cafe, and post it to any other website, without the permission of the author of the post. 
         
Professor Bishop:

Are the objections related to the spreadsheet of ideas/suggestions I've been keeping? 

Sigung (Shihan) Ron Baker
Kajukenbo 5280 MMA Foundation
Under GM Jason Groff
Ordonez Kajukenbo Ohana

Tim Vargas

  • Guest
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #143 on: December 19, 2010, 04:06:36 PM »
Please take note:
Some members have expressed objections to having what they are posting here on the Cafe, being copied onto other websites without their permission.  They also feel that members will be less inclined to talk candidly, if they know their discussions will be posted on websites they never intended to post on. 
The discussions here on the Cafe are meant to be viewed by Cafe members, and in forums open to the general public, visitors to the Cafe.  No member is to copy a post from the Cafe, and post it to any other website, without the permission of the author of the post. 
         

It would be wise to post this *New* rule to some opening page, perhaps when people log in, because there are people who do not read every post  ;D

Tim Vargas

  • Guest
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #144 on: December 19, 2010, 04:15:02 PM »
A lot of what Sifu Dan said was discussed at the Fresno unity meeting.  Things like: 1.  no cross ranking, 2. black belts who came from other schools have to train with you for at least 2 years before promotion, 3. No 10th degrees other then the founders, etc.  Many or most of the black belts in attendance expressed support for these things.  
Basically, a "Kajukenbo Code of Ethics & Standards" is something a Kajukenbo black belt instructor could pledge to follow.  It wouldn't mean joining a organization, paying dues, picking alliances, choosing methods, etc.  It would simply mean teaching the system with good ethics and high standards.  


Again, what was discussed and agreed to was from only a handful of people, it would take a much larger gathering (regional, National, International) in order to come to a consensus.  Of those you mentioned above, only ONE people didnt agree on, and that was the promotions to 10th degree in order to continue to propigate the art.  Its a fact that after that very meeting, one of the GM's at the meeting was promoted to 10th, and this was a GM who is the teacher of a GM on the BOA who was adamantly against it.  So much for *local* decisions.  In the end, people will do what they think is best, for themsleves and the great art of Kajukenbo.  I support those who want to spread our art, and I dont care what organization they belong to, if any.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 04:21:38 PM by Tim Vargas »

Offline John Bishop

  • Senior Black Belt
  • Black Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 2605
  • Seek Knowledge, Not Rank
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #145 on: December 19, 2010, 04:22:58 PM »
Please take note:
Some members have expressed objections to having what they are posting here on the Cafe, being copied onto other websites without their permission.  They also feel that members will be less inclined to talk candidly, if they know their discussions will be posted on websites they never intended to post on. 
The discussions here on the Cafe are meant to be viewed by Cafe members, and in forums open to the general public, visitors to the Cafe.  No member is to copy a post from the Cafe, and post it to any other website, without the permission of the author of the post. 
         
Professor Bishop:

Are the objections related to the spreadsheet of ideas/suggestions I've been keeping? 



This is one of messages I received with a link to your spreadsheet. 


"Hello Professor Bishop,

Have you looked at the below post carefully?  My concern is that he has taken information off of the Cafe, other websites and even 'offline' conversations and posted it on his own page.  My question is, has he obtained permission to post their information elsewhere?  In terms of the Cafe, is there anything to protect users from having their statements posted onto a public site where their information may be available to members of the public that they did not intend to have it available to?  I don't know, some of the people making these statements may not like that he has made them all publicly available on an outside site.  It certainly makes you questions whether you should ever post anything controversial if people feel free to do this.  At a minimum, I would consider it a courtesy to ask the individuals prior to posting their information elsewhere. 
"

John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline John Bishop

  • Senior Black Belt
  • Black Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 2605
  • Seek Knowledge, Not Rank
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #146 on: December 19, 2010, 04:26:04 PM »
Please take note:
Some members have expressed objections to having what they are posting here on the Cafe, being copied onto other websites without their permission.  They also feel that members will be less inclined to talk candidly, if they know their discussions will be posted on websites they never intended to post on. 
The discussions here on the Cafe are meant to be viewed by Cafe members, and in forums open to the general public, visitors to the Cafe.  No member is to copy a post from the Cafe, and post it to any other website, without the permission of the author of the post. 
         

It would be wise to post this *New* rule to some opening page, perhaps when people log in, because there are people who do not read every post  ;D

I would hope we could handle this as a "courtesy" instead of a "rule". 
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline Ron Baker

  • BlackBelt
  • Brown Belt
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #147 on: December 19, 2010, 04:45:02 PM »
This is one of messages I received with a link to your spreadsheet. 


"Hello Professor Bishop,

Have you looked at the below post carefully?  My concern is that he has taken information off of the Cafe, other websites and even 'offline' conversations and posted it on his own page.  My question is, has he obtained permission to post their information elsewhere?  In terms of the Cafe, is there anything to protect users from having their statements posted onto a public site where their information may be available to members of the public that they did not intend to have it available to?  I don't know, some of the people making these statements may not like that he has made them all publicly available on an outside site.  It certainly makes you questions whether you should ever post anything controversial if people feel free to do this.  At a minimum, I would consider it a courtesy to ask the individuals prior to posting their information elsewhere. 
"
Thank you.

The purpose of the spreadsheet, as was indicated several weeks ago, was as a compilation of the thoughts and ideas that people offered.  Not to post banter or arguments or any kind of back-and-forth discussion that was unrelated to an actual idea or suggestion.  To the extent that some folks with ideas or suggestions requested that their identities be anonymous, I did so.  Those who posted their thoughts and ideas here on the Cafe (or on Emperado.com or MartialTalk.com) were--I assumed--doing so on a public basis and knowingly.  My approach was to put these ideas and suggestions in one place for all to see.  No commentary by me; no censoring by me (unless there was profanity, personal attacks, etc.).  Again, those who wanted their suggestions anonymous contacted me either by PM or via e-mail and requested it.

To help address the gentleman (or gentlewoman's) concerns, I can certainly modify the spreadsheet so that all ideas suggestions are anonymous.  In the meantime, I guarantee that only actual ideas and suggestions will be included.  And if there is ever a time when something isn't obvious, I will err on the side of not including it.

I hope this will help.


Sigung (Shihan) Ron Baker
Kajukenbo 5280 MMA Foundation
Under GM Jason Groff
Ordonez Kajukenbo Ohana

Tim Vargas

  • Guest
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #148 on: December 19, 2010, 04:52:08 PM »
Please take note:
Some members have expressed objections to having what they are posting here on the Cafe, being copied onto other websites without their permission.  They also feel that members will be less inclined to talk candidly, if they know their discussions will be posted on websites they never intended to post on. 
The discussions here on the Cafe are meant to be viewed by Cafe members, and in forums open to the general public, visitors to the Cafe.  No member is to copy a post from the Cafe, and post it to any other website, without the permission of the author of the post. 
         

It would be wise to post this *New* rule to some opening page, perhaps when people log in, because there are people who do not read every post  ;D

I would hope we could handle this as a "courtesy" instead of a "rule". 

Its taken a while to get 4,000 hits on this subject, somehow I doubt that all memebers of Kajukenbo.com have seen it.  You should make this "courtesy" available at *log in*, that way EVERYONE knows, not just a select few.

Offline John Bishop

  • Senior Black Belt
  • Black Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 2605
  • Seek Knowledge, Not Rank
Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #149 on: December 19, 2010, 09:48:50 PM »
Please take note:
Some members have expressed objections to having what they are posting here on the Cafe, being copied onto other websites without their permission.  They also feel that members will be less inclined to talk candidly, if they know their discussions will be posted on websites they never intended to post on. 
The discussions here on the Cafe are meant to be viewed by Cafe members, and in forums open to the general public, visitors to the Cafe.  No member is to copy a post from the Cafe, and post it to any other website, without the permission of the author of the post. 
         

It would be wise to post this *New* rule to some opening page, perhaps when people log in, because there are people who do not read every post  ;D

I would hope we could handle this as a "courtesy" instead of a "rule". 

Its taken a while to get 4,000 hits on this subject, somehow I doubt that all memebers of Kajukenbo.com have seen it.  You should make this "courtesy" available at *log in*, that way EVERYONE knows, not just a select few.

OK, it's been added to the "Usage Agreement" in the "News" section.

http://kajukenbo.com/cafe/index.php?topic=1893.msg52417#new
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado