Author Topic: Kajukenbo's Future  (Read 56982 times)

Offline Kaju Bear

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2010, 12:52:14 PM »
I use this site along with a few others to get training tips and ideas that supplement my grappling skills. Wouldn't it be great if we had a free open exchange of video instructional clips like this site makes available that focused on KAJUKENBO techniques, training tips, interviews etc.

http://www.submissions101.com/
Sifu Morg Olsen
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1st degree, Tum Pai, Grand Master Robert Heuer

Offline Mitch Powell

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2010, 01:13:46 PM »
We will never get schools to agree on how a technique should go but perhaps an elected governing body could at least create a standard number of techniques and forms that are required for each belt. For instance, all my traditional black belts know the following: 14 palama sets
21 punch arts
15 grab arts
15 knife defense
13 club defense
8 two-man defense
6 three-man defense
Alphabets A thru F

No one would tell you that your # 4 knife goes like this, but the standard would suggest that you know 15 knife defense techniques for your black belt. Your 15 could be all different than my 15 but we would both have 15 knife techniques for black belt. The same goes for forms. Our 14 forms don't have to look the same, but we should have the same about of forms. 

Now my students do a lot more than what is written above. We have boxing, kick boxing, grappling and takedown drills and techniques that are broken down for each belt and they must learn that information as well. The kajukenbo knowledge is our self defense and the mma knowledge is our fighting.

I used the remainder of the 26 Alphabet techniques for 1st degree thru 3rd degree black belt rank promotions. We could have standards up through every rank.

The BOA posted some time requirements for professor and grandmaster but I know people who have those ranks that do not have the time. I was told that may include some board members, which may or may not be true, I don't know. I like what Tom wrote about having to run a school in order to be a 5th. I have always felt you should at least one black belt that you trained personally for each stripe on your belt. If you are 9th degree you should have at least nine black belts that you trained--not inherited, found, recruited, but actually trained to that rank. 
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Offline onephatboydave

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2010, 01:15:56 PM »
I know that in my style of Kenpo we have a set number of techiniques you have to know, sets of katas, grappling drills etc for each rank, both above and below BB.  And there are time in Grade for each level of Black belt, you cant get a BB until after 16 years of age and you cant not get your 2nd until after your 18th birthday, you must be 35 to gain the 5th degree and must be a head instructor at a school. For ranks above the requirements exist but the only one I know for sure is that you have to 55 to get 8th or above and meet some other requirements.  And these are about the same requirments I have seen at a number of other schools and systems.

Hope that helps,

Tom

The only thing is what if you start training later in life the age thing wouldn't work.  I think right now the unwritten rule is 16 to get a BB. Frankly I think that it should go up to 18. The reason I fell 18 should be the age has to do with maturity and being able to teach adult class.

What would happen if you had a 16 year old teaching class and someone comes in the school and challenges him just an example.

I think time and grade for rank must be continues training not 25 years with a 10 year break in training also consideration for teaching. How much time on the mat.

Just some thoughts    
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2010, 03:39:04 PM »
it has always been 18 for us for virtually the same reason...they need to be mature enough to handle that degree and adult enough to know when to use it and when to not use it....I also agree about mat time, some train 5 days a week for 15 yrs ...close to 4000 trainings....while others might put in 1000 day in in 30 yrs because of time off.  In a business or in college for example time off isn't credited as time you progressed...if anything things may be moving backwards...
When you're are not training, someone else is training to kick your _ss.
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Offline Ron Baker

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2010, 04:13:55 PM »
Many thanks GM Powell, Prof. Bono, Sifu Olsen, Mr. Garcia and Mr. Ballinger.  I've entered all your thoughts.
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Offline onephatboydave

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2010, 04:14:21 PM »
GM Powell

Your right in you will never get everyone to agree on the same thing. I think alot of schools already have their requirements for rank, the problem I see is the promotions to GM that are taking place. The KSDI has set guidelines for higher ranks but it does not stop unafilliated schools from promoting people to whatever.

I think in order to move forward we must leave the past drop the politics and just train. I see the NW does a seminar and invites all of the Ohana. Maybe that is a start setting up gathering just like the Dogbrothers and everyone comes and shares ideas. NO EGOS NO POLITICS NO DRAMA.....

Just plain ol KAJUKENBO training we have so many GMs how come we dont have seminars with several GMs teaching their stuff other then Vegas. Im sure people would pay to learn from several different GMs. Just training NO POLITICS....

Just some thoughts.....
David Garcia    Student Blackbelt/Black Sash
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Offline Ron Baker

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2010, 04:26:54 PM »
There might be room, though, for a minimal amount of standards.  Especially given the number of methods, branches, ohana's, cousins, in-laws, outlaws, etc.

And within some of those methods and branches that developed decades ago, some of their requirements may have changed several times over.  I think most people like the variety of the different flavors of Kaju.  At the same time, an agreed upon minimum set of standards could be good for the system while discouraging the formation of little fiefdoms and kingdoms.

Just sayin, brah.  ;-)
Sigung (Shihan) Ron Baker
Kajukenbo 5280 MMA Foundation
Under GM Jason Groff
Ordonez Kajukenbo Ohana

Offline onephatboydave

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2010, 05:00:11 PM »
Then let us find out what the requirements are from different schools. Feel free to post your requirements and then we can see what the minimum should be for rank...

Question: Say you had a student who was a fast learner and is just on fire. Would you promote him or wait the required time to promote him?

Just saying Brah. That is to FUNNY!!!
David Garcia    Student Blackbelt/Black Sash
Tony Ramos Kajukenbo
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Offline Greg Hoyt

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2010, 05:14:45 PM »
Aloha,
Mat time is super important, as is the ability to learn each technique.  And not just learn it, but be able to perform each technique with power, speed, accuracy, and intensity.
My instructor had a student come from another school with plenty training in different styles.  That student put in lots of mat time, and was promoted faster than the "civilian" off the streets.  He is now one of Sigung Trent's main instructors. 
Just another consideration when you think of minimums. 
Greg
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Offline Ron Baker

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2010, 05:36:42 PM »
Quote
Say you had a student who was a fast learner and is just on fire. Would you promote him or wait the required time to promote him?

The temptation is to push him up through the ranks.  But I've learned that it's important to be creative; think of leadership responsibilities for him, or other incentives to take his mind (and yours) off of early promotion.  Upgraded unies, custom belts, additional school privilege often work. 
Sigung (Shihan) Ron Baker
Kajukenbo 5280 MMA Foundation
Under GM Jason Groff
Ordonez Kajukenbo Ohana

Offline Aloha Aina

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2010, 05:58:50 PM »
I do agree in good things for kaj's future and some maybe being adressed here if they can reach some sort of recognition by a great majority.
Anyway, I still think we are talking only about the Kajukenbo's Martial Art part. I personally thing that there is a part witch is completly appart of Kajukenbo has we know it...It's the adminstrative and phisical part of an organization...if we have that we have an organization if we don't we will have rules and proccedures that can be respected by some...
I really believe that more that technicall standarts should be shared an organizational idea...it doesn't have to adress the branches issues or other kajukenbo issues like ranks and all...establish the minimum for that and then start to see what should be done to put it organization wise...if we can work together in something simple...the we can start to cross dificult terrain...
How about just deciding about creating something that represents Kajukenbo has a whole...but not with any thoughts on ranks, branches, etc...just Kajukenbo...a name for that?rings any bells? How about something that represents anyone that can be recognised has a kajukenbo practitioner, no rank or hierarchy...World Kajukenbo something for practioners...if that could work many things could follow...first thing: decide about the pourpouse of the organization and simple articles for definition of that...
that my oppinion offcourse...

Aloha & Mahalo
Sifu Renato Bernardino

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Kajukenbo Portugal
www.kajukenbo.pt

Offline Aloha Aina

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2010, 06:07:26 PM »
it's like those kind of external certification institutes that say that if you are or aren't at least recognised...only a start point...but one that without making problems could give an idea about what could go on in the future...people need to understand some differences and maybe then we could risk higher...
If something like this existed at least it would be somethin to start on...but not (only) with a website...with some real statutes and with an established legality...

  ;)
Sifu Renato Bernardino

Under GM Angel Garcia
Kajukenbo Portugal
www.kajukenbo.pt

Offline Wado

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2010, 08:47:41 PM »
I would like to see rank not treated as a right but as an honor. If someone puts in the time, are we saying they now have the right for some rank? I hope not.

No matter the time I put in, if my instructor gave me a rank, he can take it away. He could bust me down to white belt and I would have to suck it up. (Edit: Grand masters can never be busted down in rank. Grand master is exempt from what I'm saying.)

Now I know there are exceptions to every rule. There are legitimate reasons why someone who put in the time should be recognized for a rank. I'm not to say when or how that is to be done, but I accept it has to be.

I just don't want a "cookie cutter" approach to martial arts to make people think they earned their rank simply by meeting the minimum requirements. IMHO.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 08:50:38 PM by Wado »
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Offline Mitch Powell

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2010, 09:33:46 PM »
I would love to see us form the United Kajukenbo Ohana (UKO). A governing board elected by Kajukenbo black belts to oversee the day-to-day operations of Kajukenbo. The UKO would assist in establishing standards for promotion to black belt in each of the four branches, develop time requirements for rank promotions after black belt, organize world-wide seminars, assist in the development of Kajukenbo DVDs, books, videos, and coordinate instructor workshops to ensure all Kajukenbo instructors are well rounded teachers. 

Once the UKO is in place they would also have the responsibility of identifying each individual Kajukenbo group or organization and  establish a list of these groups. The groups can then be divided up by region or branch and then develop a board that would be responsible for the development of that region or branch. The kenpo-karate branch would have it's own elected board to help promote that leg of kajukenbo. The ch'uan fa branch and so forth would do the same thing.

The UKO would oversee Kajukenbo as a whole and the region or branch boards would oversee each groups individual development. Sijo put in place the BOA which would continue it's role of promoting 8th and 9th degrees. The Senior grandmaster George Kanana would be the head of the UKO, unless he elected to name a person to that position. 
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Offline onephatboydave

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Re: Kajukenbo's Future
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2010, 09:54:57 PM »
I like the idea of world wide seminars. As far as standards that's a tough one we all have different requirements and some more then others. What is the purpose of the thread is to start another organization or to unite us and share knowledge. Why reinvent the wheel.

I have no problem with the BOA. I think to make anyone the head of anything is not the answer. We have a SIJO let's live his dream and that was to share our knowledge and UNITE. Standards would be nice but what do you do with someone who does not conform tell them they are not Kajukenbo?

JMHO
David Garcia    Student Blackbelt/Black Sash
Tony Ramos Kajukenbo
Under Grand Master David V. Amiccuci
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