Author Topic: Lack of power and movement in training  (Read 16396 times)

Offline Ghost Rider

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Lack of power and movement in training
« on: June 29, 2011, 04:59:42 PM »
One thing I notice when watching some people do techniques is the lack of power in the strikes.
I notice that many people are just connecting the dots from strike to strike.
Looks cool but it’s just what we call (Pity pat)
In my opinion every strike should be powerful and to the point.
That is the Emperado way.
Let’s be honest no one is going to stand there while you hit them 6 – 10 times without moving or striking back, Unless you drop them with the first couple of strikes.
Another thing I notice is the lack of head and body movement when attacking.
Many people flow through the technique like there is no threat to them.
Trust me if you don’t move your head it’s going to get hit, if your body has no pivot, movement or lean to it you’re going to get hit.
I spoke of this a few weeks ago at the EKA when I was teaching there.
This is something that I have noticed for quite some time now and to be honest I ask myself where’s kajukenbo headed.
With everyone doing whatever they want and how ever they want and promoting anyway they want what will happen to ( SIJO’S METHOD OF KAJUKENBO)
OH YEAH Kajukenbo will survive but what will it look like 20 years from now?
If you don’t agree with me then I would have to ask how many REAL fights have you been in.
I am 53 and we just had a brawl at the night club last Saturday and it started out with about 6 of us against 20 of them and ended up with about 15 of us against 30 in the parking lot.
When we started knocking people out they didn’t want to fight anymore.
Even though I am the boss I was in the front row not the back row.
I have been working in the night club’s for about 15 years straight.
And have an average of at least 1 incident a week, you do the math.
sometime we have no problems and some time we several in one night
That being said I know what I am talking about.  
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 05:10:02 PM by Ghost Rider »
Greg Harper
senior instructor, Gumataotao Kajukenbo
Head instructor, Kajupit MMA
Sijo Emperado's personal body guard

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2011, 05:28:02 PM »
I've been in a few GM...here and there.....  ::)


Gaylord was about the hard strike to finish not the light strikes as a "distraction", Hartsell the same.....and myself the same....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
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Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2011, 06:34:07 PM »
Great choreography at best. Standing in the gunsights of my opponent is the last place I want to be. There may be some value to this as far as working the sequence of the hits and kicks - left - right, etc.. and using the rebounding energy, etc... but I don't train this way. Shoot - move / move - shoot.

IMHO

Pat
Patrick "Kaponookalani" Campbell, Ph.D.
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Offline Greg Hoyt

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2011, 11:30:56 AM »
Valid points, Grandmaster Harper. 
I don't really know how many scraps I've been in.  Maybe a dozen as a kid, a couple in the Army.  After the Service my head was pretty screwed up, and I ran with a hard crowd.  Between the service and when I began to pull my head outta my butt I can't remember how many scraps, but plenty. 
Our training is Hard Style.  We make contact, that's the way it has to be....otherwise it's just dancing.  We include several contact drills to help simulate street combat.  The drills help develope movement, flow, hard strikes/kicks, awareness, but probably most importantly, it helps us to understand that we can take a shot, a hard shot, and still keep on fighting.  There's no other alternative in a street fight.  It's fight hard, keep fighting, or die. 
Add adrenalin to the training, and the street fight takes on a whole different level of intensity and power.  Of course, we need to have control of this intensity and power, and that's where our training comes in.
Mahalo
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Offline Danjo

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2011, 11:58:47 PM »
I agree completely. People just don't want to stand still and let you finish your technique on them from start to finish! I see what you are talking about as well. People dont' use their hips/torso when rotating into a strike. They don't push off from the feet or strike through (or at least into) a target, but rather just hit it on the surface. I've also seen a lot of people lazy or sloppy about covering when striking as though no one ever punches someone else simultaneously with you striking them. they just leave their non-striking arm dangling, or left in a draw-hand position etc. Couple that with lack of power, being off balance and not moving off line or bobbing and weaving, and you've got a recipe for a butt-whipping.

I was a bouncer for about a year (6 months at each bar) years ago (23 years ago to be exact) and worked concert security for a summer back in '86. There were quite a few incidents, though only two required actually knocking someone out. Another one involved me kicking someone off a stage with a front thrust kick in the chest (and I didn't even learn it from Steven Segal either). You learn very quickly to use what works. I wish I had trained in Kajukenbo back then rather than just Shotokan and brawling.
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Offline Wado

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2011, 01:41:32 AM »

I've been noticing more and more some of my fundamentals need refreshing. Recently I've been just going back to basics with students/training partners... been working just the drop step with shoulder whirl for a power boxing cross or hook, mechanics of a karate punch on makiwara, and just an open hand power back hand slap/strike. Paying particular attention to pivot points, relaxation, footwork, and structure.

I'm finding that my power has improved by just going back to basics such as from boxing.

On the other hand, I'm also finding that it is easy in training for an arm or something to get in the way of a good strike, leading to maybe the need for the lighter stunning strikes to clear the path or set up openings for more powerful strikes. For instance, after working the pads for a bit, when demonstrating a hook between the guard, my thumb raked across my training partner's forearm as he instinctively tried to cover. No permanent damage, but it got me thinking. Could I have struck my partner's arm to the side or into them before throwing the hook? (Much like in karate.)

How often do arms and such make contact with a thumb when punching/striking in a bare knuckle brawl?

 
W. Yamauchi
Mateo Kajukenbo
Seattle, Washington

Offline Greg Hoyt

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2011, 09:19:50 AM »
Aloha,
I've never been much of a defensive fighter.  On occasion I have waited for my opponent to make the first move, but mostly not.  When it's on, it's on.  I'm not ducking and weaving.  It's not a boxing match, it's not a cage fight. 
I respect everyone's opinion and experiences, and I try to learn from everyone.  But as I look back (I'm 58 yrs old) I can't remember alot of circling, alot of dancing around.  I believe that it's important to strike first, strike hard, put 'em down, finish 'em, and check your "six".  Old school.  Hard, fast, and nasty. 
When I spar I do some bobbing and weaving, circling, fainting.  The street fight/assault is different....at least for me.  No disrespect intended. 
Sifu Greg
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Offline Danjo

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2011, 10:08:53 AM »
I agrE that a fight is more like a blitz most of the time. But getting off line and developing the bobbing and weaving skills is still good practice even if you don't use them like a boxing match. No two fights are the same.
"Rank Without Honor is Nothing."
Dan Weston
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FMAA
Don't tell me how much you honor Sijo, if you don't respect his wishes.

Offline Greg Hoyt

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2011, 02:24:39 PM »
That's true, Danjo
Sifu Greg Hoyt
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Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2011, 06:29:47 PM »
In the old days very few people trained in martial arts.
Today is not the same everyone is a MMA fighter LOL
MMA is one of the fastest growing sports in the nation that being said it is not like the old days.
Most self defense is based on a quick attack where you catch your opponent off guard because he is not expecting you to react so quickly.
Today everyone watches UFC and other things like it.
I have watched many street fights and you can hear people in the crowd yelling elbow, knee, over hand right, uppercut take em down.
I am very secure with hitting hard and fast and putting them out quick, anyone who has seen me in action will tell you something like HOLY CRAP did you see that.
I am known for power and speed.
What I am talking about is those that hit so fast that they are more concerned about hitting fast and looking good that they forget about the HARD!
Also they are moving so fast that they are open to counter attack because they are close and not doing damage.
I do not feel disrespected by anyone’s opinion and am simply stating mine.
I know what I see when I watch people train and most of the ooooo ahaaaaa are not reality and most are not as deadly as they think they are.
As we said this is just my opinion.
Train any way you like.
Greg Harper
senior instructor, Gumataotao Kajukenbo
Head instructor, Kajupit MMA
Sijo Emperado's personal body guard

Offline Danjo

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2011, 06:38:52 PM »
GM Harper,

I agree completely. I have other friends that have worked clubs etc. For many years like you have and they say the same thing: everyone is an MMA expert these days. They also say that their biggest concern is hitting hard and not going to the ground.
"Rank Without Honor is Nothing."
Dan Weston
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FMAA
Don't tell me how much you honor Sijo, if you don't respect his wishes.

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2011, 08:07:02 PM »
I think when you are young and skilled you play the game of a fight like a sparring match.
 I think it becomes an ego fight...you feel like you have the guy figured out and can box or whatever you feel like.

When you get older and just want to get home to the family it becomes different.  You just hit hard and fast and finish things and leave.

The young me enjoyed the fight itself....now is different, I guess you get a bit more serious and don't really want to see the other guys skill.  You just want to let him see/feel yours and make him wish he hadn't......
GM John E Bono DC
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Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline kcerda

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2011, 02:59:50 PM »
Well, In my humble opinion, I dont think is just a matter of age, cuz ive seen some respected GM  "improving" the original method by adding a lot of weak flashy hits and slapping, so u can hardly find the difference between that kind of kaju from epak. Maybe looks nice for a demo, but i think is far from the original idea of ending the confrontation with a simple, hard and quick blow. Watching once again the old Forbach Panther Videos  I realize how many of those clean and simple techniques works  just if ure conditioned enough, that means, if u really works to be strong and to hit hard. Speed is a consequence of ur strenght, not the final goal.
Sifu Kristov Cerda
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2011, 03:04:32 PM »
My age talk was about my experience...I started early on and when you are young and skilled you like to test yourself....as you get older you get smarter...one hopes...plus you probably if in the arts a while Have tested yourself
GM John E Bono DC
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Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline grand master hemenes

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2011, 04:18:10 PM »
I have to agree with prof. bono when you get older if you have to defend your self for me its one or two strikes and it should be over and im out of there you don't want to stick around. but on the other hand being in the position that we are in its hard to hit someone even if you are defending your self abought 5 years ago i was put in a bad spot the guy tried to hit me first I blocked his punch and I hit him one time he went to the hospital the districk attorney tried to charge me with atepend murder becuse of my training in the martial arts my lawyers got it dropped because the guy was out on parole and was a bad guy. but it scared me to the point that its just better to walk away unless you have no choice and I asked the DA should I have just stood there and let him hit me and there answer was yes!! so tell me what's fair theses days..........


                                            grand master hemenes
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 04:19:56 PM by grand master hemenes »
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