Author Topic: Lack of power and movement in training  (Read 16384 times)

Offline Claudio

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2011, 04:27:06 PM »
I agree 100% with the age concept Prof Bono.  As far as the law is concerned... Damned if you do.... Damned if you don't.... that person is still going to the hospital before i do if I can help it.
Prof. Claude "Claudio" Lawson III
Ronin Kombat Systems / American Kajukembo Assoc

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Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2011, 09:52:41 PM »
  but it scared me to the point that its just better to walk away unless you have no choice                                            

 grand master hemenes


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pat
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Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2011, 01:28:49 PM »
Many people flow through the technique like there is no threat to them.

I'm guilty.  Prof, what do you suggest?  A class with 1/3 technique, 1/3 mobility/reflex training, 1/3 sparring?   If the hard-sparring is regular, it's hard to do that more than once every week, especially for older fellows.  It seems as if martial arts classes have built up large libraries of techniques that mostly similar to each other. Another problem is that a teacher that "rolls" must be able to consistently beat everyone he "rolls" with.  This means he must be in top form his entire life, and thus, unless you're a power lifter, the teaching career doesn't last very long unless he stops "rolling." 
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
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Offline kcerda

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2011, 02:54:36 PM »
Now i got the "age" part..and I agree. Maybe im not old enough in MA but i have a scar in my forehead because a beer jar that an angry drunk guy just decided to broke in my head. In that case it would be useful just a block (parry)-kick or block-punch simple combo, and not a 6 or more movements kenpo technique. Maybe the problem is that many martial arts schools are focused in teaching  those libraries of techniques more than in the concepts and principles they cointain. At least in my branch of hawaiian kenpo we dont have hundreds of techniques (no more than 70 i think), and when teaching i broke them in pieces to show the fighting principles, so an advanced student should be able to adapt and ad lib to fit it to a fighting situation, and always thinking in to fight hard, dirty and end the confrontation as soon as u can.
Then u can see mostly of the techniques depends from a bunch of fighting principles that one can make work just doing 2 o 3 movements, if we teach more movements per technique its just we are teaching options, or another principles like weight transfer,or flowing, but always hitting hard as if u were ending the fight from the very first blocking (in the old okinawan karate times, it suppose u have to be able to break an arm with a block).
 
Sifu Kristov Cerda
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2011, 03:05:23 PM »
Technique based on accuracy and timing with effective strikes.  Sometimes strikes are trained without thinking of precision.
 The random slaps that are not meant to hurt or setup another strike I think is what was being talked about.....
GM John E Bono DC
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2011, 03:07:36 PM »
Did you say Beer jar?  Goodtimes...
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline kcerda

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2011, 03:48:48 PM »
Yup, a beer jar (im not sure that's the way u named it in America), the scar is in my forehead, 1 inch over my nose, so im a lucky man  :D.
I understand the slaps came in the first place from FMA checkings, and thats the way we do it, as checkings; or sometimes as open hand hits that control a limb or prepare a part of the attacker body by positioning it (when one slaps an ear to cause a brain conmotion and also open the side of the neck for a definitive blow of a lock, i.e.) . But in some epak guys and that kaju GM i was talking before, ive seen they do weak slaps in parts of the body where they couldnt cause damage, like if those slapping movements were an aesthetical element to make the technique looks well and the hands looks flashy... could work as a coordination drill to help dexterity, but doenst work as a tool in a self defense technique and the point is that is included IN the technique like that.
Sifu Kristov Cerda
Half Blood Hawaiian Kenpo - Chile, Southamerica.
OKO

Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2011, 05:37:24 PM »
That's what I was talking about, weak slaps to show flash.
it has been said many times, keep it simple stupid.
we always go back to basic's because basic's are simple and they work.
flash will get you hurt.
Greg Harper
senior instructor, Gumataotao Kajukenbo
Head instructor, Kajupit MMA
Sijo Emperado's personal body guard

Offline Ron Baker

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2011, 07:35:13 PM »
Yup, a beer jar (im not sure that's the way u named it in America), the scar is in my forehead, 1 inch over my nose, so im a lucky man  :D.
I understand the slaps came in the first place from FMA checkings, and thats the way we do it, as checkings; or sometimes as open hand hits that control a limb or prepare a part of the attacker body by positioning it (when one slaps an ear to cause a brain conmotion and also open the side of the neck for a definitive blow of a lock, i.e.) . But in some epak guys and that kaju GM i was talking before, ive seen they do weak slaps in parts of the body where they couldnt cause damage, like if those slapping movements were an aesthetical element to make the technique looks well and the hands looks flashy... could work as a coordination drill to help dexterity, but doenst work as a tool in a self defense technique and the point is that is included IN the technique like that.

The beauty of Kaju is that there are so many tools in our tool belts.  The slap checks of Kenpo are fine when demonstrating the ideal technique.  But without boxing basics, we don't learn how to "turn over" or pronate a punch.  A slip and a mean right cross might not be as flashy or pretty, but it often gets the job done.
Sigung (Shihan) Ron Baker
Kajukenbo 5280 MMA Foundation
Under GM Jason Groff
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Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2011, 07:36:22 PM »
Let your training partner throw 2 or 3 strikes and see what happens.
You won’t have time for your 6 – 10 or 12 strikes, you’re not that fast.
When we do that we normally have a few people go home with split lips bruise’s or knots on their heads.
(Emperado method)
Some are the people doing the techniques and some are the attackers.
Keep it real and drop the flash, the only people that are impressed with that are those who don’t know any better.
Greg Harper
senior instructor, Gumataotao Kajukenbo
Head instructor, Kajupit MMA
Sijo Emperado's personal body guard

Offline Tony49

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2011, 08:17:21 PM »
My instructor has always been a proponent of hitting hard.  When he would demonstrate sparing techniques, he would use good head movement and feet working waiting to strike with the hardest punch he could through.  This style may have not won many tournament trophies but I was always convinced it would work great in the street base on what some of my family members would tell me.  So know when I teach my students not only do we do a lot of bag work to make sure we can hit hard but also so their hands don't get busted up.
Antonio Lucero

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Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2011, 08:19:18 PM »
Last night we had 2 brawls at the night club.
First one 4 guys jumped 1 of my bouncers, I dropped 1 with a single punch and then pinned him to the floor with a knee and a thumb strike to stomach 9, another bouncer came over and held him down so I could help my bouncer who had 1 guy down and 2 on his back punching him.
I went to his aid and dropped another with a punch and hit the other with a back knuckle.
Then took the guy on the floor and stood him up.
He still would not settle down so I put a choke on him and he was asleep in a few seconds.
I dropped him to the floor and started looking for a new victim, but by that time nobody else wanted any.
Billy Evangelista, who is a strike force fighter with a 11 / 1 record was right there watching the whole thing, he came up to me later and said he had never seen anything like that.
At the end of the night we had another brawl with around 20 guys.,
Just trying to keep people back I put 4 different guys on their butt with open hand strikes to the chest just below the throat and took another one out with a choke.
There was nothing fancy about any of it, just power, speed, correct angles and basic strikes.
And a little experience.
I was lucky through all of it not 1 person put a hand on me.
I’m not bragging here, just bringing to the table that I know what I’m talking about when it comes to real fighting and what will work and what will not.
Pity pat strikes and no movement would have got me hurt. 
Not a bad night for an old guy.   
Greg Harper
senior instructor, Gumataotao Kajukenbo
Head instructor, Kajupit MMA
Sijo Emperado's personal body guard

Offline grand master hemenes

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2011, 08:51:57 PM »
what kind of bar do you work at?
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Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2011, 10:40:03 PM »
I work at club Rome in Fresno Ca.
It is the largest night club in Fresno and probably the nicest club from Bakersfield to the bay area.
We are a Las Vegas style club.
http://www.romefresno.com/gallery/?album=2&gallery=9
On Friday night we accommodate anywhere from 800 to 1000 people and on Saturday we have anywhere from 1200 to 1500 in the house.
I have 23 bouncers in house and 10 outside
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 10:43:29 PM by Ghost Rider »
Greg Harper
senior instructor, Gumataotao Kajukenbo
Head instructor, Kajupit MMA
Sijo Emperado's personal body guard

Offline grand master hemenes

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Re: Lack of power and movement in training
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2011, 11:06:29 PM »
well be careful to many people.................gm hemenes
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